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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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Edited >1 y ago
I've seen that mentality with a Vietnamese Woman hiding behind Me for protection against a Marine that wasn't wrapped too tight waving a gun around and She was terrified of Him and thought He would kill Her. She wasn't armed and wasn't doing anything to wrong at all, I got Him calmed down and sent Him on his way. It may well have saved Her life but them it didn't solve the problem of that individual and if He had persisted there I may have had to shoot Him. I'm glad it didn't rise to that. I hadn't though of that for quite a while, just one moment in many though, not even a major event as far as things I'd experience there. It sure was major for that lady though but at least She felt safe with Me and sought that protection which She did get.
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SSgt Rick Zalon
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He restored our honor.
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SGT English/Language Arts Teacher
SGT (Join to see)
7 y
Well said!
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SGT Michael Thorin
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Edited 7 y ago
Grab a seat everyone, about a 10 minute read, but I pray you will read it through.

SGT (Join to see), I have known about the My Lai massacre for almost 33 years now. As a teenager, I was drawn to the Vietnam war. I was attracted to the Army long before that as I had a friend whose uncle was an SFC in the 75th Ranger Regiment (can’t remember which BN).

One of the reasons I was so hooked on studying the Vietnam War was because of my birthday, which is March 29, 1973, the day the last American combat troops pulled out of Vietnam, ending America’s direct involvement in the Vietnam War.

This led to me reading a great deal of books on Vietnam (such as “Chickenhawk” by Robert Mason, one of my favorite books, my number 1 book being the Holy Bible). I learned a great deal about the war, the good and the bad. The fact that war was not about medals and romance. It was about something deeper, and that even our brave troops could become disillusioned by the distorted glasses of combat.

Today, we might refer to it as the “mob mentality”, however, the name doesn’t change the fact that this is simply horrible and unfathomable, unless you are looking at it through those distorted glasses of combat. When the enemy may take the form of the civilians, it is easy to start seeing the civilians as enemies.

On March 16, 1968, on the ground I believe this is what they were telling themselves, and eventually it took over, and caused all of them to see only enemies. From overhead, Mr. Thompson and his crew had “the big picture”, meaning they were separated from the emotions, and saw clearly what was happening could not be reasonably or legally justified.

Their mind was seeing from clarity, whereas the soldiers on the ground were seeing through the fog of war, and in the middle of a group of soldiers who were all following each other. Not to say this justified, it simply explains how good men can become so caught up when in a life and death situation that wrong can seem right.

Which is why I believe Mr. Thompson and his crew were able to break it up. I believe the OIC was brought back to the clarity of his charge, and looked around, and realized what his men and himself had done. With his own side standing up for the civilians, he saw clearly what had happened, and he ordered his men to stand down and “regroup” in order to bring them back into some aspect of clarity.

I can see how the military at that time saw him as a “traitor”, for lack of better terms. The military itself was taking a hit on the war. With journalists beginning to show footage never shown before, they finally could at least see what war was like, and they did not like what they saw. Gone were the days of the military PR getting to show the glorious footage on the silver screen that the military cameramen could get during WWII, and now we had all the news reporters filming the true nature of war, and it was not pretty and glamorous like shots coming from the wars of old where nothing but support for our troops was tolerated, and only the “best” was placed on screen for all to see.

I think many soldiers think about it in wars where the enemies do not wear uniforms. There is no armor to fight, no aircraft to fight: there are simply men and women who would love nothing more than to sacrifice themselves for their god. In Vietnam, it was their homes. In Iraq and Afghanistan, it was their land, their faith, and even life they were fighting for, many times for life against the terrorists fighting the war.

Regardless of reasons, when you fight a war against an enemy that can be anyone from the most suspicious man within view to even a mother holding her infant, the line between combatants and non-combatants can become very thin, sometimes so thin that without a microscope, you could not see it. Your heart races because every child who comes out from the desert or the jungle could have a bomb just for you. I myself had a 10 year old boy try to stab me with my back turned towards him. My gunner had my six, and gave me adequate warning to turn while pulling my sidearm, looking at a 10 year old about to drive a “Rambo” knife (no kidding, and actual Rambo knife) under my body armor. He was within 5 feet when I turned and we stared at each other.

I lost 3 valuable seconds, in which he could have plunged the knife in me then ran. I do not know why he didn’t. My gunner had no clear line of site, and my driver was security for our 9 o’clock while we were waiting for the mission we were escorting to get through with their “code yellow”.

While it only took the boy about 3 seconds to break contact and run, I’m not even sure if I would have shot him. There was no doubt in my mind that he would have skewered me had my gunner not been doing his job (I absolutely loved my crew, and was glad that they asked me to be on my HMMWV).

So, if you live this day in and day out, why wouldn’t human behavior lead to a complete distrust of the all the occupants of that country?

In the words of Chris Rock (one of my least favorite comedians), “I’m not trying to say what they did was right, but I do understand it.” This is a phrase that few can understand unless they have been there. Yes, what they did was wrong and they should have been punished, but, I do understand it.

I hope and pray that my condemning what they did, and yet understanding why they did it does not offend anyone, I am simply being honest.

I am proud to have served with people like Mr. Thompson who helped me keep my head on straight by both talking with and having my “six.” It is what I believe to have been one of my biggest assets I felt I had.

Strength and Honor

COL Mikel J. Burroughs,SPC Douglas Bolton,Brig Gen Jim Jaeger,CPT Jack Durish,Maj Marty Hogan,SPC Christopher Smith,Lt Col Charlie Brown,Cpl Scott McCarroll,SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth,SP5 Mark Kuzinski,SPC Mark Brown,SGT Elizabeth Scheck,MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy,SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL,SSG William Jones,TSgt Joe C.,SSgt Robert Marx,SGT Robert George, LTC Stephen F.
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Sgt Bob Leonard
Sgt Bob Leonard
2 y
I am going to take what is, in this discussion, the minority position.

You said, "On March 16, 1968, on the ground I believe this is what they were telling themselves, and eventually (the mob mentality) took over, and caused all of them to see only enemies."
and
"...the soldiers on the ground were seeing through the fog of war... (and)... it simply explains how good men can become so caught up when in a life and death situation that wrong can seem right."
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What follows is taken from the official investigation into the event....
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CHAPTER 12
FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
I. ON THE BASIS OF THE FOREGOING, THE FINDINGS OF THE INQUIRY ARE AS FOLLOWS:
.....
"(3) The massacre resulted primarily from the nature of the orders issued by persons in the chain of command within TF Barker.
(4) The task force commander's order and the associated intelligence estimate issued prior to the operation were embellished as they were disseminated through each lower level of command, and ultimately presented to the individual soldier a false and misleading picture of the Son My area as an armed enemy camp, largely devoid of civilian inhabitants.
(5) Prior to the incident, there had developed within certain elements of the 11 t h Brigade a permissive attitude toward the treatment and safeguarding of noncombatants which contributed to the mistreatment of such persons during the Son My Operation.
(6) The permissive attitude in the treatment of Vietnamese was, on 16-19 March 1968, exemplified by an almost total disregard for the lives and property of the civilian population of Son My Village on the part of commanders and key staff officers of TF Barker.
(7) On 16 March, soldiers at the squad and platoon level, within some elements of TF Barker, murdered noncombatants while under the supervision and control of their immediate superiors.
(8) A part of the crimes visited on the inhabitants of Son My Village included individual and group acts of murder, rape, sodomy, maiming, and assault on noncombatants and the mistreatment and killing of detainees. They further included the killing of livestock, destruction of crops, closing of wells, and the burning of dwellings within several subhamlets.
(9) Some attempts were made to stop the criminal acts in Son My Village on 16 March; but with few exceptions, such efforts were too feeble or too late."
*******
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The investigation found that soldiers on the ground at My Lai were not "caught up in the fog of war" or found themselves in a "life or death" situation. Orders from command level and attitudes through the entire chain of command compelled those men to commit those atrocities.

In the aftermath of My Lai becoming public knowledge, the Pentagon put together the Vietnam War Crimes Working Group (VWCWG). They were tasked with determining how many other My Lai-type massacres there were. Their findings were the basis for the book “Kill Anything That Moves” by Nick Turse.

According to Turse, they found enough credible evidence and/or testimony of almost 300 such events. That’s not quite one a day, but it is more than one a week. That didn’t include other similar but smaller occurrences - - gang rapes ending with the murder of the victim/victims and any witnesses, grenades tossed into huts and holes containing only women, children, and old men, et al. - - that were not counted/reported.

Turse’s book isn’t the only source for this and similar information. In a memo SecDef McNamara sent to Pres. Johnson he said: "There may be a limit beyond which many Americans and much of the world will not permit the United States to go," he wrote in his memo. "The picture of the world's greatest superpower killing or seriously injuring 1,000 noncombatants a week, while trying to pound a tiny backward nation into submission on an issue whose merits are hotly disputed, is not a pretty one.”

The My Lai Massacre was a travesty.
The command level cover-ups, and similar ones like it throughout the theater, was gross malfeasance and dereliction of duty at all levels.
The treatment of Hugh Thompson by the US Army was inexcusable.
Waiting 30 years before recognizing his courage and integrity, and giving him a medal for it, was too little too late. The damage was done.
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Sgt Bob Leonard
Sgt Bob Leonard
2 y
Report of the Department of the Army Review of the Preliminary Investigations into the My Lai Incidence

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/llmlp/RDAR-Vol-I/RDAR-Vol-I.pdf
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