Posted on Dec 21, 2014
Leadership Dilemmas: If you were me, what would you have done? (PART 1)
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To all RallyPoint members: I faced this real Leadership Dilemma as a new O-1 in my first unit. Suddenly, I had a second chance to fix the mistake I made. What would you have done if you were me? (PART 1)
// REAL SCENARIO //
“Sergeant Jones got arrested again last night,” my commander told me with an unnerving stare. In the two weeks since my joining the unit, SGT Jones had been arrested for domestic violence, reported late multiple times, and flunked a basic job competency examination. As SGT Jones’s supervisor, I was responsible for remediating his self-destructive behavior and providing actionable, hands-on guidance to him.
However, instead of leading SGT Jones, I made the mistake of deferring to Alpha Company’s Senior NCOs who, in this case, had known SGT Jones for a long time and just wanted him out of the unit. No counseling or remedial actions had been documented. The Senior NCOs began shaping their plan to whisk SGT Jones away to a different unit, thereby removing the problem as opposed to tackling it.
Because I was the newest and most junior officer in Alpha Company, I felt pressured to follow the path of least resistance and therefore didn’t assert myself as a leader – a mistake that meant SGT Jones did not receive the leadership attention he deserved. Unsurprisingly, his misconduct continued.
My commander called me back into his office and told me to tell him what I wanted to do: send SGT Jones to the other unit, or something else?
** RallyPoint members: if you were me, what would you have done? **
//
Tag: SGM Matthew Quick 1SG Steven Stankovich SFC Mark Merino SSG Laureano Pabon LTC Jason Strickland SSG Robert Burns SSG Scott Williams SSG V. Michelle Woods CPT (Join to see) Col (Join to see) Capt Brandon Charters SSgt Gregory Guina CMSgt James Nolan 1SG (Join to see) SSG (Join to see) 1LT John Martin TSgt Joshua Copeland 1SG (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) Cpl (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SGT Thomas Lucken SGT Richard H. MAJ (Join to see) SGM Charles Brainard CPT Gregory Wagoner CMSgt James Nolan SFC (Join to see) SCPO (Join to see) MSG Wade Huffman SSG (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SPC Brian Aranda Cpl (Join to see) 1SG (Join to see) SFC(P) (Join to see) MAJ (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) 1LT John Martin A1C Nathanial Snyder MSgt Allan Folsom
// REAL SCENARIO //
“Sergeant Jones got arrested again last night,” my commander told me with an unnerving stare. In the two weeks since my joining the unit, SGT Jones had been arrested for domestic violence, reported late multiple times, and flunked a basic job competency examination. As SGT Jones’s supervisor, I was responsible for remediating his self-destructive behavior and providing actionable, hands-on guidance to him.
However, instead of leading SGT Jones, I made the mistake of deferring to Alpha Company’s Senior NCOs who, in this case, had known SGT Jones for a long time and just wanted him out of the unit. No counseling or remedial actions had been documented. The Senior NCOs began shaping their plan to whisk SGT Jones away to a different unit, thereby removing the problem as opposed to tackling it.
Because I was the newest and most junior officer in Alpha Company, I felt pressured to follow the path of least resistance and therefore didn’t assert myself as a leader – a mistake that meant SGT Jones did not receive the leadership attention he deserved. Unsurprisingly, his misconduct continued.
My commander called me back into his office and told me to tell him what I wanted to do: send SGT Jones to the other unit, or something else?
** RallyPoint members: if you were me, what would you have done? **
//
Tag: SGM Matthew Quick 1SG Steven Stankovich SFC Mark Merino SSG Laureano Pabon LTC Jason Strickland SSG Robert Burns SSG Scott Williams SSG V. Michelle Woods CPT (Join to see) Col (Join to see) Capt Brandon Charters SSgt Gregory Guina CMSgt James Nolan 1SG (Join to see) SSG (Join to see) 1LT John Martin TSgt Joshua Copeland 1SG (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) Cpl (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SGT Thomas Lucken SGT Richard H. MAJ (Join to see) SGM Charles Brainard CPT Gregory Wagoner CMSgt James Nolan SFC (Join to see) SCPO (Join to see) MSG Wade Huffman SSG (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SPC Brian Aranda Cpl (Join to see) 1SG (Join to see) SFC(P) (Join to see) MAJ (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) 1LT John Martin A1C Nathanial Snyder MSgt Allan Folsom
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What Would You Do
Values What Would You Do
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 88
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First, deferring him to the SNCOs wasn't necessarily the wrong move, though in this case it doesn't seem the best move either. Unfortunately, you couldn't have known that until after they didn't take care of business, as was the case here. Is there an issue with the SNCO leadership in this unit? To be honest, they appear a bit lazy in this description. The SNCOs desire to transfer him to another unit accomplishes nothing more here than making SGT Jones someone else's problem, effectively only accomplishing "sweeping him under the rug".
The right thing (IMHO) in this case is for someone to try to get to the bottom of the problem, and then try to help SGT Jones solve it. Since the NCOs haven't done it, this is where the LT comes in. Yes, there is a such thing as NCO business, but Officer business is to see that NCO business is being done. Note that I said HELP him solve it. You can't do it for him. Truth be told, you might not be able to help him either, but you have to try. Sometimes help comes in the form of (or accompanied by) some punitive measures as well. If chaptering him is the answer, that will be an answer for later after all attempts to solve the problem have been exhausted and well documented.
The right thing (IMHO) in this case is for someone to try to get to the bottom of the problem, and then try to help SGT Jones solve it. Since the NCOs haven't done it, this is where the LT comes in. Yes, there is a such thing as NCO business, but Officer business is to see that NCO business is being done. Note that I said HELP him solve it. You can't do it for him. Truth be told, you might not be able to help him either, but you have to try. Sometimes help comes in the form of (or accompanied by) some punitive measures as well. If chaptering him is the answer, that will be an answer for later after all attempts to solve the problem have been exhausted and well documented.
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I think that one of the hardest things to do when you first arrive to a unit is to be forced into making a decision like that. With that being said though, I think that looking from the outside in and knowing that if I were "SGT Jones" I would have wanted the guidance that my SNCOs and Officers could provide. We all need guidance, from the PVTs straight out of IET to the 4 Stars sitting on the JCS. There is not a day that goes by where we do not learn something from someone. I think that one of the worst things that we as leaders try to do is force people out of the Service, if, like you said, there was nothing on paper, then this is a problem that will persist, and instead of helping it is just made worse. I am not trying to say that you did the wrong thing Sir, because I do not know what I would have done if I were in the same situation.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing Sir, transferring SGT Jones moves the problem, doesn't solve it. Chaptering SGT Jones out, while an option later, only moves the problem from the Army and into the civilian population. In my opinion, we owe a service member treatment options, counseling, and support as no other organization could provide. Engage faith based conversations, a Command directed psychological evaluation, and have a domestic violence counselor from Social Work Services contact his spouse or significant other. Confine to quarters (BEQ) with an escort and a lawful order to remain on post, in quarters, duty location, or dining facility. In my opinion the response must be swift and multi-faceted in order to obtain the most favorable results.
Once SGT Jones is reasonably adjusted, introduced to the VA medical system, and upon determinate results from all of the other efforts, a final decision may be made on this NCOs future. BLUF: Hold off on punitive action until a probable cause for his actions may be determined.
Once SGT Jones is reasonably adjusted, introduced to the VA medical system, and upon determinate results from all of the other efforts, a final decision may be made on this NCOs future. BLUF: Hold off on punitive action until a probable cause for his actions may be determined.
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SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
CPT Aaron Kletzing Sir, this dovetails into a topic which I feel is important especially as we draw down. In my opinion, SNCOs must have life experience to accompany their technical and tactical proficiency. If we promote SNCOs too quickly that valuable experience may be missing. Thusly, when faced with situations such as this they may lose the forest for the trees.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
Fantastic response, SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS -- thanks. As a brand new officer in my first unit, I didn't have the wisdom and perspective from experience to think through it like this, and unfortunately in this situation the SNCOs were making their intent very clear, even publicly in meetings.
I will respond again in a few days with what actions I took and what happened.
I will respond again in a few days with what actions I took and what happened.
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Sir, I was in a similar to your situation. I was a new NCO in a unit I was given a problem airman. He had been in so much trouble. The senior NCO wanted me to kick him out. I looked through his records found nothing in them. I decided to bring im to my shift to watch him closely. After a week, I noticed all he need was a little supervision. I gave him the supervision and the last time I talked to him, he was an E-9. so, I believe with the right leadership most individuals can be led to improve.
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The first thing I noticed was the title "SGT", which, to me, means holding him to a higher standard than a junior troop with less time in service. However, even leaders need leadership so I appreciate your concern for SGT Jones.
Let's give the folks who promoted this soldier to the rank of SGT a little credit here. At some point SGT Jones must have displayed the mentality of knowing to be at work on time and to not get physical during confrontations (that is of course assuming he was convicted).
In a situation that doesn't require immediate action, I would take the time to learn as much about the situation as possible from all parties. I would then react.
As for the absence of remedial training or counseling, do you really believe this Army philosophy that every single issue requires that much overkill? Hold SGT Jones accountable for his actions. Period. In addition to holding him accountable, if you believe he shows potential for fixing himself, then get him out of the unit. It is unfair and nearly impossible for him to recover in that same battalion.
Just my humble opinion sir.
Let's give the folks who promoted this soldier to the rank of SGT a little credit here. At some point SGT Jones must have displayed the mentality of knowing to be at work on time and to not get physical during confrontations (that is of course assuming he was convicted).
In a situation that doesn't require immediate action, I would take the time to learn as much about the situation as possible from all parties. I would then react.
As for the absence of remedial training or counseling, do you really believe this Army philosophy that every single issue requires that much overkill? Hold SGT Jones accountable for his actions. Period. In addition to holding him accountable, if you believe he shows potential for fixing himself, then get him out of the unit. It is unfair and nearly impossible for him to recover in that same battalion.
Just my humble opinion sir.
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Great case study CPT Aaron Kletzing. As a brand new LT, you can really never plan for this scenario. Throughout officer training we're all told, "Listen to your NCOs and everything will be alright." There really isn't enough talk about relying on your instincts and being cautious because not everyone will uphold the highest integrity. In this case, because of the lack of documentation, a full debrief of the soldier's background is needed from those that are trying to 'whisk him away'. In my opinion this is a 'team problem.' "We let one of our own break from the formation and no one really had the leadership to help fix the problem." Every missed step needs to be uncovered and accountability needs to be placed on those that avoided the proper documentation and discipline from the start. Once the full story is out there, as the leader, you lay out the new expectations for everyone involved. If this isn't corrected with the NCOs right away, there is huge risk of this happing again. Once you have all the facts and everyone on the same page, it will be easier to lay out the proper recourse.
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Sending problem Soldiers down the road to the next unit is the organizational equivalent of the Blue Falcon. The tough nut to crack isn't the E5 (as a 2LT, your role in mentoring a guy like that is more for your development than for his), your challenge is with the senior NCOs. Penetrate their ranks, get their perspective, get their buy-in, or work other channels to get them out of the decision process. Your commander needs to be in the center of this.
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Thank you for your responses thus far. I remember back at that time being really unsure of myself and nervous to stand up to what the SNCOs were wanting to do. I will respond in a few days with what the outcome was, and what I chose to do and how it turned out.
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First things first would be to tell the Senior NCOs that he is not going anywhere because you don't just send your problems to someone else to take care of you take care of them yourself. It is possible that starting paperwork to get him discharged was the proper COA but being that you had only been there a couple weeks maybe not.
What I would have done as a leader is try and determine what the cause of the problems is. It is possible that there is something going on to make him act the way that he has been acting. There could be a substance abuse problem contributing to his situation. There could even be a mental health issue that is causing his problems. Ultimately you need to help him find the root of his problem and assist him in getting that fixed. Maybe there is nothing he you can do and his pattern of misconduct continues and then you process for discharge.
What I would have done as a leader is try and determine what the cause of the problems is. It is possible that there is something going on to make him act the way that he has been acting. There could be a substance abuse problem contributing to his situation. There could even be a mental health issue that is causing his problems. Ultimately you need to help him find the root of his problem and assist him in getting that fixed. Maybe there is nothing he you can do and his pattern of misconduct continues and then you process for discharge.
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I think what you are saying is that the Mentoring period is over.
If you see a problem, you NEVER want to send it to another unit. EVER.
I have gotten other people's headaches, and I will not send them off to anyone else.
I have had these issues, and the bottom line is document EVERYTHING. (gee it seems like my cap lock key seems to be intermittently sticking).
If you document everything, you can still mentor. As a matter of fact, this counseling and documentation can drive the mentoring home. If this person starts to get counselled in writing then they may see the seriousness of the offenses and start to fly right.
And I would liberally dispense some counseling to those senior NCOs who had him before.
That's my take.
If you see a problem, you NEVER want to send it to another unit. EVER.
I have gotten other people's headaches, and I will not send them off to anyone else.
I have had these issues, and the bottom line is document EVERYTHING. (gee it seems like my cap lock key seems to be intermittently sticking).
If you document everything, you can still mentor. As a matter of fact, this counseling and documentation can drive the mentoring home. If this person starts to get counselled in writing then they may see the seriousness of the offenses and start to fly right.
And I would liberally dispense some counseling to those senior NCOs who had him before.
That's my take.
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