Posted on Dec 21, 2014
Leadership Dilemmas: If you were me, what would you have done? (PART 1)
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To all RallyPoint members: I faced this real Leadership Dilemma as a new O-1 in my first unit. Suddenly, I had a second chance to fix the mistake I made. What would you have done if you were me? (PART 1)
// REAL SCENARIO //
“Sergeant Jones got arrested again last night,” my commander told me with an unnerving stare. In the two weeks since my joining the unit, SGT Jones had been arrested for domestic violence, reported late multiple times, and flunked a basic job competency examination. As SGT Jones’s supervisor, I was responsible for remediating his self-destructive behavior and providing actionable, hands-on guidance to him.
However, instead of leading SGT Jones, I made the mistake of deferring to Alpha Company’s Senior NCOs who, in this case, had known SGT Jones for a long time and just wanted him out of the unit. No counseling or remedial actions had been documented. The Senior NCOs began shaping their plan to whisk SGT Jones away to a different unit, thereby removing the problem as opposed to tackling it.
Because I was the newest and most junior officer in Alpha Company, I felt pressured to follow the path of least resistance and therefore didn’t assert myself as a leader – a mistake that meant SGT Jones did not receive the leadership attention he deserved. Unsurprisingly, his misconduct continued.
My commander called me back into his office and told me to tell him what I wanted to do: send SGT Jones to the other unit, or something else?
** RallyPoint members: if you were me, what would you have done? **
//
Tag: SGM Matthew Quick 1SG Steven Stankovich SFC Mark Merino SSG Laureano Pabon LTC Jason Strickland SSG Robert Burns SSG Scott Williams SSG V. Michelle Woods CPT (Join to see) Col (Join to see) Capt Brandon Charters SSgt Gregory Guina CMSgt James Nolan 1SG (Join to see) SSG (Join to see) 1LT John Martin TSgt Joshua Copeland 1SG (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) Cpl (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SGT Thomas Lucken SGT Richard H. MAJ (Join to see) SGM Charles Brainard CPT Gregory Wagoner CMSgt James Nolan SFC (Join to see) SCPO (Join to see) MSG Wade Huffman SSG (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SPC Brian Aranda Cpl (Join to see) 1SG (Join to see) SFC(P) (Join to see) MAJ (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) 1LT John Martin A1C Nathanial Snyder MSgt Allan Folsom
// REAL SCENARIO //
“Sergeant Jones got arrested again last night,” my commander told me with an unnerving stare. In the two weeks since my joining the unit, SGT Jones had been arrested for domestic violence, reported late multiple times, and flunked a basic job competency examination. As SGT Jones’s supervisor, I was responsible for remediating his self-destructive behavior and providing actionable, hands-on guidance to him.
However, instead of leading SGT Jones, I made the mistake of deferring to Alpha Company’s Senior NCOs who, in this case, had known SGT Jones for a long time and just wanted him out of the unit. No counseling or remedial actions had been documented. The Senior NCOs began shaping their plan to whisk SGT Jones away to a different unit, thereby removing the problem as opposed to tackling it.
Because I was the newest and most junior officer in Alpha Company, I felt pressured to follow the path of least resistance and therefore didn’t assert myself as a leader – a mistake that meant SGT Jones did not receive the leadership attention he deserved. Unsurprisingly, his misconduct continued.
My commander called me back into his office and told me to tell him what I wanted to do: send SGT Jones to the other unit, or something else?
** RallyPoint members: if you were me, what would you have done? **
//
Tag: SGM Matthew Quick 1SG Steven Stankovich SFC Mark Merino SSG Laureano Pabon LTC Jason Strickland SSG Robert Burns SSG Scott Williams SSG V. Michelle Woods CPT (Join to see) Col (Join to see) Capt Brandon Charters SSgt Gregory Guina CMSgt James Nolan 1SG (Join to see) SSG (Join to see) 1LT John Martin TSgt Joshua Copeland 1SG (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) Cpl (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SGT Thomas Lucken SGT Richard H. MAJ (Join to see) SGM Charles Brainard CPT Gregory Wagoner CMSgt James Nolan SFC (Join to see) SCPO (Join to see) MSG Wade Huffman SSG (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SPC Brian Aranda Cpl (Join to see) 1SG (Join to see) SFC(P) (Join to see) MAJ (Join to see) SFC William Swartz Jr SFC (Join to see) 1LT John Martin A1C Nathanial Snyder MSgt Allan Folsom
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Values
What Would You Do
Values What Would You Do
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 88
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Explain your dilemma to the commander: The unit's senior NCOs want to shuffle SGT Jones along to another unit, but that doesn't seem right. Counseling, professional help (psychological counseling). and close monitoring of SGT Jones are called for. Give SGT Jones one more chance to prove himself.
Talk to SGT Jones - with his NCO support chain and possibly even the commander present - explain that he is nearing the end of his rope and is close to being chaptered. Determine if he has some problem that the military can help with. Find out (ask) if SGT Jones can explain this behavior.
Then, give SGT Jones one more chance. Direct the NCO support chain (with your help) to set up SGT Jones for success -- required appointments, etc.
Monitor the situation closely. Counsel SGT Jones (with NCO chain present) at least weekly until things settle down or it's time for SGT Jones to be chaptered.
Document everything in writing.
Talk to SGT Jones - with his NCO support chain and possibly even the commander present - explain that he is nearing the end of his rope and is close to being chaptered. Determine if he has some problem that the military can help with. Find out (ask) if SGT Jones can explain this behavior.
Then, give SGT Jones one more chance. Direct the NCO support chain (with your help) to set up SGT Jones for success -- required appointments, etc.
Monitor the situation closely. Counsel SGT Jones (with NCO chain present) at least weekly until things settle down or it's time for SGT Jones to be chaptered.
Document everything in writing.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
SPC Claudia Hawkins I really agree with CW5 (Join to see) about NOT talking to his subordinates. SGT Jones needs to be able to go back to his troops and be their leader. If HE decides that they need to know what is going on, fine, but they do not need to hear it from anyone else. If he has been acting like an idiot around them, then he might owe them an apology, but he doesn't owe them insight into his breakdown.
As a leader, Officer or Enlisted, the best thing I can do is get out and TALK to my troops. They get to know me and I get to know them. If there is a problem, then I can find it or see it easily and not be blindsided. It works with a work shop, department or ship (small 100 to 150, medium 150 to 500 (plus embarked marines), or large).
As a leader, Officer or Enlisted, the best thing I can do is get out and TALK to my troops. They get to know me and I get to know them. If there is a problem, then I can find it or see it easily and not be blindsided. It works with a work shop, department or ship (small 100 to 150, medium 150 to 500 (plus embarked marines), or large).
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CWO2 (Join to see)
MCPO Treants, I agree with sitting and discussing the situation with the SGT. First and foremost, find out what is going on in his/her life. If the members base line (personal life) is compromised than his/her profession will suffer. This trend will continue until it is resolved or manifest into something worst. From there, it should turn into a ability vrs willingness. If there is an ability issue than you can have the member seek professional help. If it is a willingness issue than start documenting the behavior.
I have said this too many times to new leaders emerging. You are not screwing over your members if they do not want to abide by military instructions. You are only holding them accountable for their actions. In the end, they will end up doing all the work themselves so, either they learn and flight straight or they will work their way out.
Cheers!
I have said this too many times to new leaders emerging. You are not screwing over your members if they do not want to abide by military instructions. You are only holding them accountable for their actions. In the end, they will end up doing all the work themselves so, either they learn and flight straight or they will work their way out.
Cheers!
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CWO2 (Join to see) i am happy to see that when I retired my relief was there to take over. You have the watch Chief!
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LCpl Russell Velzen
I think you have to isolate Sgt Jones, before he hurts himself or others. The Naval Hospital alcohol abuse unit will make a good setting for you to see him. By the time he's been through two or three group sessions, you will know if alcohol is the problem.
When you seek him out, contact his therapist and see what insight they have, and do this first. You will at least have some place to start, and he cannot be discharged or transferred until until he leaves the unit. Put him through the paces, and be upfront about where he is and what is happening to him. Given those premises, he will probably be as open as he can be. If he needs professional help, , the therapist will probably recommend it. Any other problems he has, whether at home, PTSD, or self destructive behavior can be dealt with one problem at a time. Given a second chance, don't be afraid to use the system. Working on the Alcohol Unit at Camp Pendleton Naval Hospital, I have been able to keep a lieutenant in the Corps, even though the commanding general wanted his troublemaker gone, and by any means necessary. By the time treatment had concluded, cooler heads prevailed and the man was reassigned to different duties, where he flourished and was able to make promotions, and use his own experience to help others. I really enjoyed telling the commanding general to back off, because nothing was going to happen until the man completed treatment, or walked out APO. You will have removed him from his surroundings, and given him a chance to see himself a little better.
When you seek him out, contact his therapist and see what insight they have, and do this first. You will at least have some place to start, and he cannot be discharged or transferred until until he leaves the unit. Put him through the paces, and be upfront about where he is and what is happening to him. Given those premises, he will probably be as open as he can be. If he needs professional help, , the therapist will probably recommend it. Any other problems he has, whether at home, PTSD, or self destructive behavior can be dealt with one problem at a time. Given a second chance, don't be afraid to use the system. Working on the Alcohol Unit at Camp Pendleton Naval Hospital, I have been able to keep a lieutenant in the Corps, even though the commanding general wanted his troublemaker gone, and by any means necessary. By the time treatment had concluded, cooler heads prevailed and the man was reassigned to different duties, where he flourished and was able to make promotions, and use his own experience to help others. I really enjoyed telling the commanding general to back off, because nothing was going to happen until the man completed treatment, or walked out APO. You will have removed him from his surroundings, and given him a chance to see himself a little better.
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Let's address your original plan: Transfer him. Would you, as a PL, want a problem soldier dumped off on you? Not likely, so why do that to one of your peers?
First thing you need to do is speak with this soldier and see what the heck is going on. There might be issues there that you can address yourself (through your senior NCOs). There may also be issues there that may need professional counseling. If this NCO was previously a good soldier, sudden misbehavior is a strong red flag that something is wrong.
As far as remediation plans, yeah, you don't necessarily need to do it yourself directly, but you need to meet with the senior NCOs that you are going to delegate this to and create a clear gameplan. Make no mistake, while they may be doing a lot of the hands-on remediation, you still need to supervise it. The mistake a lot of young leaders make is that they don't delegate properly. They cede responsibility.
Finally, if this Soldier is simply a POS, then yes, maybe a chapter needs to be started. But you can't determine that until you've had a chance to assess the situation.
First thing you need to do is speak with this soldier and see what the heck is going on. There might be issues there that you can address yourself (through your senior NCOs). There may also be issues there that may need professional counseling. If this NCO was previously a good soldier, sudden misbehavior is a strong red flag that something is wrong.
As far as remediation plans, yeah, you don't necessarily need to do it yourself directly, but you need to meet with the senior NCOs that you are going to delegate this to and create a clear gameplan. Make no mistake, while they may be doing a lot of the hands-on remediation, you still need to supervise it. The mistake a lot of young leaders make is that they don't delegate properly. They cede responsibility.
Finally, if this Soldier is simply a POS, then yes, maybe a chapter needs to be started. But you can't determine that until you've had a chance to assess the situation.
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SSG (Join to see)
Sir, at what point does or should a leader step back and allow his NCOs to operate autonomously? If a soldier is receiving remedial or corrective training and the PL is there, wouldn't you agree that this undermines the NCOs authority? I agree that all leaders should inspect what they expect, but the company commander doesn't send his 1SG to supervise his PSGs when the PSGs are having joes do layouts? That' would be micromanagement. If an officer cannot trust his/her NCOs than the NCO should be removed or shown what the standard is, how they aren't meeting it, and how the standard can be successfully met and maintained. I don't belive that a PL should ever have to supervise corrective actions unless it's in lieu of competent NCOs.
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SSG (Join to see)
Additionally sir, I believe in effective counseling. If you use patience, persistence and paperwork and set good examples even the strongest minded knucklehead can be set straight. It's all dependent on the amount of effort put into it.
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LTC Paul Labrador
SSG (Join to see), in this scenario I was responding to, it was pretty obvious that the NCOs weren't doing what they needed to be doing, else they would have been working with their fellow NCO instead of trying to dump him off on someone else. And supervise doesn't necessarily mean I'm looking over your shoulder while you do it. It does mean you are reporting back to me what you are doing and how successful (on not) things are going. The point I was making is that young leaders will delegate a task, but not follow up on it, and provide direction as needed.
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Hindsight is always 20/20 sir and it is far easier to say "do the hard right over the easy wrong" than to actual do it. Rehabilitative transfers are always a last resort. I know this has been echoed already. It is very disappointing that there was not a rather large counseling packet on SGT Jones, along with all the COAs that have already been worked (ie ASAP, Family Advocacy, Behavioral Health, Chaplain, etc). What SGT Jones a problem child since he arrived to the unit or was there an incident that began his downward spiral? Questions like that should have been asked to ascertain the rest of the story.
It is difficult to be the new guy/gal and go against the recommendations of those who have been in a unit, especially Seniors. However, like I said in the beginning, hindsight being 20/20, I fell that explaining to the CDR that you needed more time to gather all of the facts of the situation before you made a decision should have been the call.
I voted "other" because I feel that as a Leader, it is our job to find out the root of the problem before deciding on a COA. SGT Jones may have underlying problems that need to be tended to. This may not rehabilitate him in a way that he is retainable, sadly that ship may have sailed, but it may be what he needs to ensure that he is led back onto the right path. Soldiers are people and we have a responsibility to accomplish the mission and look out for their well-being.
It is difficult to be the new guy/gal and go against the recommendations of those who have been in a unit, especially Seniors. However, like I said in the beginning, hindsight being 20/20, I fell that explaining to the CDR that you needed more time to gather all of the facts of the situation before you made a decision should have been the call.
I voted "other" because I feel that as a Leader, it is our job to find out the root of the problem before deciding on a COA. SGT Jones may have underlying problems that need to be tended to. This may not rehabilitate him in a way that he is retainable, sadly that ship may have sailed, but it may be what he needs to ensure that he is led back onto the right path. Soldiers are people and we have a responsibility to accomplish the mission and look out for their well-being.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
1SG Steven Stankovich -- thanks for the awesome feedback on this, MSG. It was a tough situation to find myself in within my first 2 weeks in my first unit. I will respond again in a few days with what actions I took and how it all turned out. Thanks again!
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