Posted on Feb 9, 2014
Should the Army do something to represent two same-class badges such as EIB/CIB and EFMB/CFMB?
49.5K
131
71
10
10
0
For instance, if a Soldier earned both a CIB and EIB, they are not able to wear both. I believe we should either be able to wear both or have some other way to distinguish someone who has both. Maybe a full color badge with the ACU if you earned both badges? Just a thought.<div><br></div><div>I actually never wear my EIB, despite the fact that only about 10% of my MOS has one. The CIB is considered a more "esteemed" badge. <br><div><br></div><div>The EFMB and CFMB medic badges also fall into this category.</div></div>
Uniforms
Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB)
Expert Field Medical Badge EFMB
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 30
12
12
0
I earned both the EIB (as a 19 year old private in Korea) and the CIB (as a 20 year old Sergeant outside of Fallujah). To be honest, I don't feel that this is a question of great importance, but I will throw my 2 cents into the ring and see what happens.
I have never been one to admire awards. Too often I saw higher ranking SM's with a chest full of awards and school badges hiding behind walls and failing to lead their men. Conversely, the Private with little experience, no schools, and no awards would be the ones charging into the breach without a moments hesitation.
After being awarded (and legitimately earning) my CIB, I chose to wear my EIB on my dress uniforms (much to the irritation of senior enlisted). I wore my EIB because I felt I had to work harder for that recognition than I did for my CIB. My CIB simply required me to do my job better than the enemy and, hopefully, survive. The other reason I treasure my EIB more than the CIB is because of the outrageous number of people I saw running and screaming to S-1 to put in their paperwork because a mortar round landed 500 meters away just outside the FOB or an IED hit the last vehicle in their convoy while they sat in the first vehicle (a mile away).
In the end I don't put too much stock into awards until I meet the person and find who they really are under their chest plate of thin metal strips and pulled colorful fabric.
Just my 2 cents.
I have never been one to admire awards. Too often I saw higher ranking SM's with a chest full of awards and school badges hiding behind walls and failing to lead their men. Conversely, the Private with little experience, no schools, and no awards would be the ones charging into the breach without a moments hesitation.
After being awarded (and legitimately earning) my CIB, I chose to wear my EIB on my dress uniforms (much to the irritation of senior enlisted). I wore my EIB because I felt I had to work harder for that recognition than I did for my CIB. My CIB simply required me to do my job better than the enemy and, hopefully, survive. The other reason I treasure my EIB more than the CIB is because of the outrageous number of people I saw running and screaming to S-1 to put in their paperwork because a mortar round landed 500 meters away just outside the FOB or an IED hit the last vehicle in their convoy while they sat in the first vehicle (a mile away).
In the end I don't put too much stock into awards until I meet the person and find who they really are under their chest plate of thin metal strips and pulled colorful fabric.
Just my 2 cents.
(12)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
Exactly my thoughts. We had Soldiers quickly drafting CAB paperwork for IED and small arms attacks on our convoys in which, thankfully, nobody got hurt. Technically I qualify for one but I never bother. I thought it was pretty stupid. Especially since grunts, EOD and others where the ones doing the real dangerous stuff.
(0)
(0)
12
12
0
I've heard talk in the past about his subject also. I think a simple answer to this would be to make the musket and/or the wreath on the CIB gold, denoting both the EIB, and CIB have been earned. Just my thoughts though.
(12)
(0)
SGM Gregory Tarancon IV
Great idea! I like the fact that it would distinguish both honorable accomplishments!
(0)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SGT Richard H.
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA 4th through 8th awards of the CIB only exist in Heraldry. They can only be awarded up through the 3rd award now.
(0)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
I have been hearing thoughts echoing the same...a gold wreath showing that you have both and the same guidelines could be used for medics with CFMB and EFMB. Maybe it's time to actually submit the recommendation. I mean a SFC at Fort Campbell's Air Assualt school recommended a retirement medal with different devices for years serviced and it got a write up in the Army times.
(1)
(0)
9
9
0
I'll probably get jumped for this but oh we'll. The EIB is earned, the CIB is awarded, just like the EFMB is earned and the CMB is awarded.
I know dozens of people who EARNED their badges and dozens more that we're awarded them merely for being there.
I know dozens of people who EARNED their badges and dozens more that we're awarded them merely for being there.
(9)
(0)
(1)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
My CIB orders lay on my table for 3 weeks as they were cut due to harassing small weapons fire. . . . . all the officers had their CABs on the next day. Several weeks later while I was driving, an IED detonated on the driver's side front wheel. We all survived the explosion & the MAT-V was considered a total loss. I think that you statement is too generalized and has a slight veil of resentment.
(0)
(0)
8
8
0
What a great question, as a infantryman that has earned both badges I personally would like to see something that combines both badges but I am more interested if the Army plans on creating an Expert Action Badge for our other MOS' once combat deployments stop. Nothing to me is better than the opportunity for our soldiers to become experts in skill level one tasks and there's no better way to test that knowledge then a test like the EIB or EFMB.
(8)
(0)
1SG Steven Stankovich
I remember in the old days when an infantryman had both awards, he would wear the CIB on his BDUs and have the EIB sewn under the left breast pocket flap.
(8)
(0)
SFC Aaron Calmes
I remember this. Also when the non-infantry guys took the EIB test and passed (our scouts, medics, etc) they would do the same since they were not authorized to wear it due to their MOS even though they earned it.
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
Why should the Army waste more time and money to produce 2 more badges to stroke the egos of a small group of people? The small group of which I speak are those that feel the need to have their entire 201 file on display on their uniforms and POVs. These are the same type of folks that think everyone should get a trophy for playing a sport.
Don't give the SMA any more ideas about changing the uniform, again. The Good Idea Fairy already has a desk and receptionist in his office.
The real question should be- how would this action support my unit in combat? Answer- it doesn't, so it's not important.
BTW, I have both, and it was harder to earn my EIB than my CIB
Don't give the SMA any more ideas about changing the uniform, again. The Good Idea Fairy already has a desk and receptionist in his office.
The real question should be- how would this action support my unit in combat? Answer- it doesn't, so it's not important.
BTW, I have both, and it was harder to earn my EIB than my CIB
(6)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
I like how you state that there is a small group that feel the need to have their entire 201 file on display on their uniforms and POVs and this is so true. In the end, once you retire, an extra modification on your CIB/EIB isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
I definitely think this should be something we are considering. Those have that have earned both awards are definitely a step above their peers, why shouldn't they be able to show it?
(6)
(0)
5
5
0
In DA Pam 670-1, Ch 22–16 (Combat and special skill badges and tabs), para 7d(2) "Personnel may wear up to five badges above the U.S. Army tape so long as space allows for the badges on the individual’s uniform. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badge from either group 1 or group 2. Soldiers may wear up to five badges from groups 3 and 4. One badge from either group 1 or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 so long as the total number of badges on the combat uniform does not exceed five."
Now look at the attached figure 22-63. They show a CIB (cat1) worn with a CMB (cat2). Soooooo, is this an error? Am I reading this wrong?
It provides the same type example in fig 22-56, on the ASU. A CIB (cat 1) and an EFMB (cat 2) worn together. VERY confusing, and I think it needs re-worded, different picture examples, or some clarity. In the MEDDAC, we have guys who have both an EFMB and a CAB, but seems like they must choose either or...
I'm assigned to a MEDDAC, and I don't want to assume, but I believe it's saying "wear one badge from cat 1, or one badge from cat 2, but not both at the same time...
THOUGHTS?
Now look at the attached figure 22-63. They show a CIB (cat1) worn with a CMB (cat2). Soooooo, is this an error? Am I reading this wrong?
It provides the same type example in fig 22-56, on the ASU. A CIB (cat 1) and an EFMB (cat 2) worn together. VERY confusing, and I think it needs re-worded, different picture examples, or some clarity. In the MEDDAC, we have guys who have both an EFMB and a CAB, but seems like they must choose either or...
I'm assigned to a MEDDAC, and I don't want to assume, but I believe it's saying "wear one badge from cat 1, or one badge from cat 2, but not both at the same time...
THOUGHTS?
(5)
(0)
SFC Michael Hasbun
Good catch MSG. People have been finding errors with the illustrations since the day of release.
(0)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
Fig. 22-63 Depict (1) Cat I Badge, (1) Cat II Badge, (1) Cat III Badge, and (2) Cat IV badges for a total of 5. This is authorized. Te CMB and EFMB are both CAT II badges and as such only one may be worn. Sadly, the CMB has priority and is worn in lieu of the EFMB if both are earned.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
Sir, the reg was updated to only allow 1 cat 1 badge or 1 cat 2 badge. not one of each.
(3)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see), as SFC (Join to see) said I think it's been updated but yes that used to be allowed. I used to serve with a fellow medic who had earned his EFMB, and had also earned his CIB as he was originally an 11B before reclassing. He wore both badges simultaneously with pride, and got a lot of strange looks from people who didn't know him. One of the best medics I ever knew.
(0)
(0)
4
4
0
A CIB with gold trim to recognize both would be interesting. I have both and I wear my EIB 99% of the time. I really only catch flack about wearing the EIB instead of CIB from people who have tested for EIB and failed, to which they love stating the CIB takes precedence over the EIB and that I am jacked up...
I always have to direct them to paragraph 22-16 in DA Pam 670-1
(5) The order of precedence for combat and special skill badges are established only by group. There is no precedence for combat or special skill badges within the same group. For example, personnel who are authorized to wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of wear between those two badges.
Seems pretty clear to me.
I always have to direct them to paragraph 22-16 in DA Pam 670-1
(5) The order of precedence for combat and special skill badges are established only by group. There is no precedence for combat or special skill badges within the same group. For example, personnel who are authorized to wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of wear between those two badges.
Seems pretty clear to me.
(4)
(0)
Suspended Profile
I believe the same issue is encountered with the CAB and EFMB. Before, you could wear EFMB and a CAB. However, the new AR 670-1 does not allow that. I believe you should be able to wear both. EIB and EFMB are extremely hard to earn. Yet, it is also nice to show some kind of combat action experience (CIB, CMB, CAB).
LTC (Join to see)
I don't read that as a change. I read that as 1 badge from each category 1 and 2. I believe the intent is not to wear 2 from cat 1 or 2 badges from cat 2.
(0)
(0)
Suspended Profile
Hmmm...it is a bit tricky but it does say "wear one combat or special skill badge from EITHER group 1 or group 2." Where as it says "Soldiers may wear up to five badges from groups 3 and 4." with not EITHER in that one. Just an observation sir...it is kind of unclear....
SFC (Join to see)
The old verbiage: (2) A total of five combat and special skill badges are authorized for wear at one time; this total does not include
special skill tabs (see figs 29–52 and 29–53). Personnel may wear only one badge each from groups 1, 2, and 3, as
listed in paragraph a, above. Personnel also may wear three badges from group 4, and two badges from group 5, but
the total number of badges cannot exceed five. Combat badges have precedence over special skill badges within the
same group. For example, if an individual is authorized to wear the Combat Infantry badge and the Expert Infantry
badge, the Combat Infantry badge is worn. There is no precedence for special skill badges within the same group. For
example, personnel who are authorized to wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of
wear. The above policies apply to the wear of both non-subdued and subdued badges.
vs:
the new verbiage:
(1) A total of six combat and special skill badges are authorized for wear at one time on service and dress uniforms
(see figs 22–56 and 22–57); this total does not include special skill tabs or special skill tab metal replicas. See
paragraphs 22–7b and 22–16c for guidance when wearing full-sized and miniature medals.
(3) Personnel may wear up to three badges above the ribbons or pocket flap, or in a similar location for uniforms
without pockets. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badges from either group 1 or group 2 above the
ribbons. Soldiers may wear up to three badges from groups 3 and 4 above the ribbons. One badge from either group 1
or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 above the ribbons so long as the total number of badges
above the ribbons does not exceed three.
(4) Only three badges (from groups 3, 4, or 5), to include marksmanship badges, can be worn on the pocket flap at
one time. This total does not include special skill tab metal replicas. Personnel will wear the driver and mechanic
badges only on the wearer’s left pocket flap of service and dress uniforms, or in a similar location on uniforms without
pockets. Personnel may not attach more than three clasps to the driver and mechanic badges. The driver and mechanic
badges are not authorized for wear on utility uniforms. See paragraph 22–15a(3) for wear of badges on the pocket flap,
or a similar location without pockets.
(5) The order of precedence for combat and special skill badges are established only by group. There is no
precedence for combat or special skill badges within the same group. For example, personnel who are authorized to
wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of wear between those two badges.
Sir, if one were to argue there were no actual change, why such the drastic change of verbiage between versions?
old reg counted 5 combat or special skill badges and up to 3 marksmanship badges, new reg states 6 total (to include marksmanship) 3 above and 3 below the pocket flap. the pictures were taken from the old reg and not updated, this caused discrepancies for many sections of the new reg. Also old reg specified if you were authorized a combat and a special skill badge of the same type you were required to wear the combat one (CIB vs EIB) whereas the new reg allows at wearers discretion. If it is as you assert, this would be an example of a common misconception for the new reg as nearly everyone i've spoken to about this particular "change" hasn't seen it as you have. Perhaps clarification from higher would be warranted?
special skill tabs (see figs 29–52 and 29–53). Personnel may wear only one badge each from groups 1, 2, and 3, as
listed in paragraph a, above. Personnel also may wear three badges from group 4, and two badges from group 5, but
the total number of badges cannot exceed five. Combat badges have precedence over special skill badges within the
same group. For example, if an individual is authorized to wear the Combat Infantry badge and the Expert Infantry
badge, the Combat Infantry badge is worn. There is no precedence for special skill badges within the same group. For
example, personnel who are authorized to wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of
wear. The above policies apply to the wear of both non-subdued and subdued badges.
vs:
the new verbiage:
(1) A total of six combat and special skill badges are authorized for wear at one time on service and dress uniforms
(see figs 22–56 and 22–57); this total does not include special skill tabs or special skill tab metal replicas. See
paragraphs 22–7b and 22–16c for guidance when wearing full-sized and miniature medals.
(3) Personnel may wear up to three badges above the ribbons or pocket flap, or in a similar location for uniforms
without pockets. Personnel may only wear one combat or special skill badges from either group 1 or group 2 above the
ribbons. Soldiers may wear up to three badges from groups 3 and 4 above the ribbons. One badge from either group 1
or group 2 may be worn with badges from groups 3 and 4 above the ribbons so long as the total number of badges
above the ribbons does not exceed three.
(4) Only three badges (from groups 3, 4, or 5), to include marksmanship badges, can be worn on the pocket flap at
one time. This total does not include special skill tab metal replicas. Personnel will wear the driver and mechanic
badges only on the wearer’s left pocket flap of service and dress uniforms, or in a similar location on uniforms without
pockets. Personnel may not attach more than three clasps to the driver and mechanic badges. The driver and mechanic
badges are not authorized for wear on utility uniforms. See paragraph 22–15a(3) for wear of badges on the pocket flap,
or a similar location without pockets.
(5) The order of precedence for combat and special skill badges are established only by group. There is no
precedence for combat or special skill badges within the same group. For example, personnel who are authorized to
wear the Parachutist and Air Assault badges may determine the order of wear between those two badges.
Sir, if one were to argue there were no actual change, why such the drastic change of verbiage between versions?
old reg counted 5 combat or special skill badges and up to 3 marksmanship badges, new reg states 6 total (to include marksmanship) 3 above and 3 below the pocket flap. the pictures were taken from the old reg and not updated, this caused discrepancies for many sections of the new reg. Also old reg specified if you were authorized a combat and a special skill badge of the same type you were required to wear the combat one (CIB vs EIB) whereas the new reg allows at wearers discretion. If it is as you assert, this would be an example of a common misconception for the new reg as nearly everyone i've spoken to about this particular "change" hasn't seen it as you have. Perhaps clarification from higher would be warranted?
(0)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
The small group of people that feel the need to have their entire 201 file on display on their uniforms and POVs need to use some common sense.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
Read This Next
-
Ask questionGet expert advice and
tips for your questions. -
Post updatePost pictures, personal updates, plans, or anything you like!
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google 
