Posted on Dec 3, 2014
No indictment for NY Cop choke hold death. Right call? More riots?
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Will we see the National Guard deployed in NY City now?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 60
I am not going to dwell on the obvious, "if he had not resisted arrest, it would not have happened"... however, it did appear that the force used to apprehend him may have been a little excessive for the crime he was accused of committing. Having said that, the police officers really only had a couple of other choices; (1) simply walk away and forget that he was breaking the law and resisting apprehension or (2) continue to try to convince him to cooperate, which would have probably been futile.
It appears to me they did what they had to do, however, they should have let up on the choke hold (or whatever it will be classified as) when he was yelling that he could not breathe.
Interesting point that I have not seen much reporting on. According to a recent report, the cause of death was not from cutting his airway at the neck; it was from not allowing him to breathe due to chest compression. As such, the choke hold was not the cause of death and, therefore, the officer "everyone" is stating should be tried for murder, negligent homicide, or manslaughter did not cause the death and is innocent.
It appears to me they did what they had to do, however, they should have let up on the choke hold (or whatever it will be classified as) when he was yelling that he could not breathe.
Interesting point that I have not seen much reporting on. According to a recent report, the cause of death was not from cutting his airway at the neck; it was from not allowing him to breathe due to chest compression. As such, the choke hold was not the cause of death and, therefore, the officer "everyone" is stating should be tried for murder, negligent homicide, or manslaughter did not cause the death and is innocent.
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SSG Robert Burns
I think what is more reprehensible is that not a single person administered First Aid or CPR. They just let him die.
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First, I think that the Grand Jury got it right in Ferguson, MO. They got it wrong in NYC. Way wrong. What I will say about this incident is this: The resulting riots/protests have been much more peaceful than those last week. Why?
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In this case, based on video evidence, absolutely the wrong call. This case was a dad trying to make ends meet buy selling cigarettes. NY has some of the most freedom restricting laws. A choke hold for suspicion of selling smokes instead of just issuing a citation was definitely excessive force. Killing him, well, the officer should be tried for myrder. This case is the opposite of the Mike Brown incident. Mike brown had already harmed the officer and was rushing back to do it again when shot. Kudos to the Ferguson Grand Jury. None for the NY Grand jury.
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SSG Jeremy Siebenaller
No matter how any of us feel about how excessive the forced may or may not have been...IF there was no crime committed (which everyone is over looking) There would have been no need to try to apprehend the individual. Hence no need to get hand cuffed hence no resisting and so forth.... The grand jury, no matter how you, I , or anyone feels and thinks about it is exactly what makes us Americas. They are a diverse cross section of the suspects and "victims' peers that saw every single piece of evidence on both sides.... THEY say the man is free...Then he is free! No matter what any of us feel about it. He was found free! Why is it that none of this craziness happened when OJ was found innocent by a jury of his peers? Was it because he wasn't an officer of the law? Is it because even as bad as the case was...the media wasn't as evil as they are now? Why can we not let the justice system work for us and not argue it?!
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I hope for no more riots, but that was the wrong call. Anyone who has seen the video knows that this was murder, even if only an accident, it was murder. If I choke someone on the street the same way they did even if only to protect myself against an assualt, I'd be tried by the court.
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Indictments are very specific as I recall. I think the problem here is that the victim was not choked, but died from a heart attack related to his rough handling.
Bottom line? He was killed because the use of force was way too high for someone selling cigarettes on the sidewalk.
Riots? no. New York is very different than Ferguson. They are much closer, believe it or not, something about having lower Manhattan turned into a smoking hole.
Protests? yes. Because, well... it's the wrong call, and there probably should be a few protests, but my prediction is that they will be peaceful.
Bottom line? He was killed because the use of force was way too high for someone selling cigarettes on the sidewalk.
Riots? no. New York is very different than Ferguson. They are much closer, believe it or not, something about having lower Manhattan turned into a smoking hole.
Protests? yes. Because, well... it's the wrong call, and there probably should be a few protests, but my prediction is that they will be peaceful.
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I call foul play! There is a reason that the chokehold was forbidden to use to detain suspects! The man wasn't even a threat to the police! Nevermind he was better than 400 pounds, asthmatic and had other health issues. He has a right to defend his innocence. Using the chokehold to a point of killing just to detain a man and then not giving him first aid after stating he can't breathe is just plain murder. I don't blame his family for not wanting an apology from the NYPD! The use of force by police officers has really gotten out of hand, especially when they kill children!
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From what I see, he is being put in the choke hold wrong. I was taught in combatives that guy puts his bend in the elbow around the throat which allows the bicep and forearm to put pressure on the arteries. It is supposed to be a blood choke. Maybe I am wrong though
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I believe it was the right call. I believe there was no "choke" hold applied as it was more of a head lock to take the individual down. Now think if you were being held down by a bunch of people what would you say to get them off of you. Possibly I can't breath. I am not saying it was handled totally correctly but we have to take into context why police officers do every day and the different situations they are put into. Very similar to what we go through overseas.
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SPC (Join to see)
It was proven that the chokehold was the cause of death. It was a chokehold. The cop killed him. Wrong call.
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CMSgt James Nolan
SPC (Join to see) The media led the firestorm with the phrase "illegal chokehold" to stir things up. What you did have was a very large man resisting arrest. He did not want to go to jail. The officers cannot just walk away or you have anarchy.
When you use the phrase "it was proven that the chokehold was the cause of death" you are leaving out the rest of the release : Garner's acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity and hypertensive cardiovascular disease were contributing factors, the medical examiner determined."
When you use the phrase "it was proven that the chokehold was the cause of death" you are leaving out the rest of the release : Garner's acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity and hypertensive cardiovascular disease were contributing factors, the medical examiner determined."
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SGM (Join to see)
1stSgt James Nolan, you are correct. The media loves that, from their term "assault weapon" to their assumption that WMD means nuclear weapons, dismissing the chemical and biological weapons that were found.
Perhaps we need the civilian equivalent of a dog tag, as in a T-shirt. If you wear a bright orange T-shirt with black letters emblazoned on the front and back giving your physical condition, perhaps the cops could choose a less lethal means of "convincing" you that you really are under arrest and you really are going to jail.
Perhaps we need the civilian equivalent of a dog tag, as in a T-shirt. If you wear a bright orange T-shirt with black letters emblazoned on the front and back giving your physical condition, perhaps the cops could choose a less lethal means of "convincing" you that you really are under arrest and you really are going to jail.
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No, they would take the guns away from the National Guard. It is NYC afterall.
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This was an interesting update that came out recently. Be sure to note who enacted the tax...
http://www.freedomworks.org/content/nycs-ridiculously-high-cigarette-tax-cant-be-ignored-after-eric-garners-death
http://www.freedomworks.org/content/nycs-ridiculously-high-cigarette-tax-cant-be-ignored-after-eric-garners-death
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