Posted on Oct 29, 2015
Islamic opening prayer to Allah in the House of Reps, how much more of this can we stomach?
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What's the problem with it? We are a land where we should practice religious freedom. Would it be better if it was a Jew, a Christian, maybe a Buddhist? The real question is what I said at first...what's wrong with it?
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SSG Warren Swan
SFC Matthew Parker - SFC thank you for noticing, but he's trolling me, and has been for a couple of posts now. I personally didn't respond to him because we had an agreement where after a previous talk (women in the infantry) we wouldn't speak to each other again. I refuse to let ignorance get to me, or even cause me to loose a wink of sleep. Behind the solace of a keyboard anyone can be tough, or come up with reasons why they are doing what they're doing but when you have to see them regularly, it's a much different situation. Do not let this E8 get under your skin, or think he's setting any kind of example as a "leader" to anyone but himself. I hope RP doesn't delete this post, but keeps it to serve an a pure example of how ignorant one of our own really can be, and maybe use it to deter others in doing the same.
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SFC Matthew Parker
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
Hey brother, I'm out. RP I thought was going to be a forum of professionals sharing thoughts and experiences. Debating topics of interest to the military.
I didn't expect to see racist hate mongers like Howell. Thanks for the kind words, As a 1SG of a detachment I had a soldier like him, sent him home. I could never see how these people made it into the Army.
I hope to see you down the road and wish you continued success.
SSG Swan,
As a private my platoon sergeant told me ignoring a problem didn't fix the problem. So I will take on Howell and bring his comments to the Army's attention and to his employer. Feeling the way he does is understandable after losing six soldiers in Iraq, but expressing his feelings on social media like this is wrong. His comments could get a soldier killed by someone with access to RP that may be playing for the other team. His comments motivate hate towards us no different than the Pastor burning the Quran.
Your a better man than me for being able to hold back, but I can't walk away from this.
Hey brother, I'm out. RP I thought was going to be a forum of professionals sharing thoughts and experiences. Debating topics of interest to the military.
I didn't expect to see racist hate mongers like Howell. Thanks for the kind words, As a 1SG of a detachment I had a soldier like him, sent him home. I could never see how these people made it into the Army.
I hope to see you down the road and wish you continued success.
SSG Swan,
As a private my platoon sergeant told me ignoring a problem didn't fix the problem. So I will take on Howell and bring his comments to the Army's attention and to his employer. Feeling the way he does is understandable after losing six soldiers in Iraq, but expressing his feelings on social media like this is wrong. His comments could get a soldier killed by someone with access to RP that may be playing for the other team. His comments motivate hate towards us no different than the Pastor burning the Quran.
Your a better man than me for being able to hold back, but I can't walk away from this.
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SSG Warren Swan
SFC Matthew Parker - I was told the same thing when I was a PVT. And I've addressed this with the admins here on RP. I would ask you NOT to leave RP because we are always going to have those who are questionable in their deeds and their actions. You'll have that even in active service. What we'll never have are enough folks to take them to task for it, or to call them out on their BS. RP has been a blessing and I've met way too many good Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors to leave. I've also been blessed to be able to talk to people senior to me in a professional manner where we might disagree, but we got to talk about it. Talking is important and something that in some cases these folks wouldn't be able to do due to mission requirements, or other obligations, but know they can come here and spread their sphere of influence beyond the unit or cubicle. 1SG Steve Howell does not represent the caliber of NCO's that are on RP by any means. He doesn't even represent RP in any way other than he's a member. What he say's is directed to me in a less than professional manner and he's holding a grudge for whatever reason. I do not care one bit. He's everything I never wanted to be, and with him on here, other NCO's or troops who are still in, get a firsthand glimpse into what they should not want to be in their careers. He's the perfect learning example if we could have a NCOPD on leadership, leadership attributes, and social media do's and don'ts. Also I'd much rather have a "man" who openly hates me for whatever reason, than that "friend" who smiles to my face, and then goes and runs his gums behind my back. I have that with 1SG Steve Howell. Racism is never excused. I've lost people, and while I hold a grudge against those who did the act; I hold it to those who DID the act. Not to an entire religious base, an entire country, or a specific skin color. I'd love nothing more to go and avenge them, but I get to do it here, and in the vet groups I follow. Telling them, helping them, and being there for them is a more dignified manner of getting "even" and has more strength than any weapon I've ever held or seen fire. We get to help troops live....we cannot bring those who are gone back. I cannot tell you what to do, but I can advise senior from subordinate and my advice is to look past 1SG Steve Howell, and see the good that this site has. It has it's fair share of clowns and comedians (myself included), but there are those golden nuggets that transcend everything and make it all worthwhile. Stick around SFC. You have knowledge and experience that others don't and could use. SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" Don't let anyone delete this thread. It's going to be one of those learning tools that wasn't used when I had my first go round with 1SG Howell, and it needs to be brought up by RP staff beyond the regulations made by RP, but with the standards of conduct expected of each and every member on here through their branches of service. The branches aren't that different in most things.
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Islam is like every other religion, they all have their radicals and extremists. It is aggravating that the silent majority do not speak out against the violent minority but you can't condemn Islam as a whole. This was just an attempt at diversity.
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COL Ted Mc
PV2 Scott Goodpasture - Private; I agree as well.
PS - I don't agree simply because of "editorial bias" but on the grounds of REALLY sloppy, inaccurate, incomplete, incompetent, and unimaginative "reporting".
PS - I don't agree simply because of "editorial bias" but on the grounds of REALLY sloppy, inaccurate, incomplete, incompetent, and unimaginative "reporting".
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COL Ted Mc
SGT William Howell - Sergeant; You don't strengthen your position by playing fast and loose with the facts.
FYI, the TOTAL defence spending at this time is around 6.2% of GNP. During WWII the total defence spending was around 41%. The "War on Terror" has (statistically) almost no effect on the United States of America - although the individual effects of the people who are ACTUALLY involved can be catastrophic.
If you "lost friends and killed people" in Iraq it was NOT "because of that day" it was because someone had an "agenda" and used "that day" to advance it. Considering that there were plans being made to invade SEVEN countries, you can consider yourself lucky that they were called off after the first two.
FYI, the TOTAL defence spending at this time is around 6.2% of GNP. During WWII the total defence spending was around 41%. The "War on Terror" has (statistically) almost no effect on the United States of America - although the individual effects of the people who are ACTUALLY involved can be catastrophic.
If you "lost friends and killed people" in Iraq it was NOT "because of that day" it was because someone had an "agenda" and used "that day" to advance it. Considering that there were plans being made to invade SEVEN countries, you can consider yourself lucky that they were called off after the first two.
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SGT William Howell
COL Ted Mc You are talking money. Nobody is talking about money. We are talking about human beings. Mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers all have died. Sept 11 changed history.
Man, are you that insensitive to those around you?
Agendas? You can kick rocks too!
Man, are you that insensitive to those around you?
Agendas? You can kick rocks too!
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COL Ted Mc
@sgt; - Sergeant; It isn't "insensitive" it's "paying attention".
During WWII the US military fatalities per day were around 298.3 and the amount of the US population which was in the US military was around 5.9%. If you knew 12 people (or more) there was a better than 50% chance that one of them had been in the US military.
During the "War on Terror" the US military fatalities per day were around 1.3 and the amount of the US population that had actually been deployed to combat zones was around 0.42%. If you knew 165 people (or more) there was a better than 50% chance that one of them had been deployed in the "War on Terror".
In contrast to the "bloodbath" of the "War on Terror", during 2011 the US MVA fatalities per day were around 92.6.
Quite frankly, the only ones who are ACTUALLY "engaged" with the "War on Terror" are those who are actually fighting it (and their families), those who are making a lot of money out of it, and those who are using it to seek (or retain) public office.
During WWII the US military fatalities per day were around 298.3 and the amount of the US population which was in the US military was around 5.9%. If you knew 12 people (or more) there was a better than 50% chance that one of them had been in the US military.
During the "War on Terror" the US military fatalities per day were around 1.3 and the amount of the US population that had actually been deployed to combat zones was around 0.42%. If you knew 165 people (or more) there was a better than 50% chance that one of them had been deployed in the "War on Terror".
In contrast to the "bloodbath" of the "War on Terror", during 2011 the US MVA fatalities per day were around 92.6.
Quite frankly, the only ones who are ACTUALLY "engaged" with the "War on Terror" are those who are actually fighting it (and their families), those who are making a lot of money out of it, and those who are using it to seek (or retain) public office.
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PV2 Scott Goodpasture
Which religions should get to enjoy and practice their faith here? I still vote "all of them", kind of like the 1st Amendment says.
Which religions should get to enjoy and practice their faith here? I still vote "all of them", kind of like the 1st Amendment says.
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PV2 Scott Goodpasture
I always thought the constitution was reserved for Americans and not every other person in the world except Americans. Weird.
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SSG Nana Togonmessie Abloklu Danfira Adedufira
No, the constitution is applicable to anyone within a US protectorate and Islam isn't a nationality. There's been hundreds of thousands of native born Muslims in the US since before the revolution. I'm going to need you to be better than the alarmist that put that article up.
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My thoughts:
First, I believe PV2 Goodpasture is racist and thought he would have more support with his question about Muslim prayers, than he is receiving. Also, I don't like to connect with someone who is afraid to show their face and military profile. Second, PV2 Goodpasture is too young to understand how most of us feel about freedom of religion and our Constitution we all fought for to preserve and keep America a free Nation that has allowed anyone to come to America, as long as they are here legally. We fought and lost friends, in order to keep our free to do that. Third, Can you imagine how much the Muslim put their lives in danger praising our country and our military. I think it took some guts to do what they did. My loyalties are with America and those who want to be an American. Simple as that.
First, I believe PV2 Goodpasture is racist and thought he would have more support with his question about Muslim prayers, than he is receiving. Also, I don't like to connect with someone who is afraid to show their face and military profile. Second, PV2 Goodpasture is too young to understand how most of us feel about freedom of religion and our Constitution we all fought for to preserve and keep America a free Nation that has allowed anyone to come to America, as long as they are here legally. We fought and lost friends, in order to keep our free to do that. Third, Can you imagine how much the Muslim put their lives in danger praising our country and our military. I think it took some guts to do what they did. My loyalties are with America and those who want to be an American. Simple as that.
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PV2 Scott Goodpasture
First I'm too damned ugly to post my face, second I'm married to wait for it a beautiful Hispanic woman and I love her and her family and their culture 3rd I'm 54 years old and 4 you just swun and missed 3 times you're out. Sad
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SGT (Join to see)
PV2 Scott Goodpasture. And 6, thanks for your comment. I'm 71. You're still a kid to me. LOL I just don't see the big deal with a prayer acknowledging how great America is. You have a problem with it and I respect your decision. That's all.
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PV2 Scott Goodpasture
SGT (Join to see) - I just get overloaded with anti Muslim dogma from fox and other right wing dogma factories. Knowing that doesn't bring the towers back or put peoples heads back on their bodies
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It may have been a good prayer, but we are not a nation built on Islam. We are a nation built on Christian beliefs. Why would anyone condone our Government have an opening prayer asking for Allah's blessing.
You need to really look into that religion and the Koran to realize that the whole basis of the religion is to either convert or kill the non believers of Islam. This is not a religion of tolerance of other religions. They do not believe in loving thy neighbor as thyself.
You need to really look into that religion and the Koran to realize that the whole basis of the religion is to either convert or kill the non believers of Islam. This is not a religion of tolerance of other religions. They do not believe in loving thy neighbor as thyself.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SSG Todd Halverson - Let's see what the bible says about those of different faiths and compare and contrast with your quote from the Quran....
" If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."
Deuteronomy 17
"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ,thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)
" If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."
Deuteronomy 17
"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ,thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)
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SSG Todd Halverson
To everyone who has responded to my post, we could go tit for tat all day long until the end of time about what each religion does or does not teach. We should all just agree to disagree. You have your feelings and beliefs, based on your life experiences and teachings. I have my feelings and beliefs, based upon my life experiences and teachings. I do in fact have friends who follow the teachings of Islam. I have also talked with some Muslims in Afghanistan about the various sects and teachings of Islam. I still do not think it should be allowed in our Government, which was built upon the Christian faith. In God We Trust not Allah, Buddha, Jehovah, Krishna, The Tao, Wakan Taka or any other name that other religions use to describe their supreme Deity.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SSG Todd Halverson - All of which are Gods, and we weren't very specific. Also, Allah literally means God, it's just a different language. One can argue that you're just saying Allah in English...
Also, the founding fathers went on record repeatedly saying this nation was NOT built on Christianity. That is an propaganda that perpetuates worse than the cold...
Also, the founding fathers went on record repeatedly saying this nation was NOT built on Christianity. That is an propaganda that perpetuates worse than the cold...
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SSG Audwin Scott
Religion ,religion, religion a topic that is always going to bring a debate because everyone has their right to believe in what they believe in. Who's right, who's wrong? Only God knows.
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If the US government is kept secular, we wouldn't have topics such as this come up.
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SGT William Howell
Sgt Richard Buckner I thought it was to keep the Pope from running the country. Pretty sure that was where that was going when they come up with that.
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SGT James Hastings
Actually, Sgt Howell, the Pope had nothing to do with the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Mainly, Christians who weren't Catholic, were trying to escape from countries where they were imprisoned and worse, for being a Protestant. But, they could see what has happened with the Government of a Nation decided what religion and only allowed the State sanctioned Church to exist in that Nation. Those who escaped persecution for the way they believed didn't want to live in a nation that didn't allow everyone the freedom to worship (or not) the way they desired. That doesn't mean that they felt that all types of worship were correct. Millions escaped persecution in their country for not agreeing with the State religion. Muslims all over the world have no choice what to believe. Anyone not practicing Islam can be sentenced to death and usually that is what happens. There are no Bill of Rights in a Muslim dominated country.
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SrA Daniel Hunter
SrA Edward Vong Sure we would. That majority of the population is religious in some form. It wouldn't be a representative government if it were purely secular. There is a great quote from Peter Berger on that point. "They say Swedes are the least religious people in the world, and Indians are the most religious. And so, American is like a land of Indians governed by Swedes."
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COL Ted Mc
Sgt Richard Buckner - Sergeant; You are correct. The figures I gave are for Indian Punjabis. I guess you could get the same error if you only considered Utah when determining the religious makeup of the United States of America.
SGT James Hastings - Sergeant; If what the colonists wanted was the freedom for everyone to practice their own religion why did they have "establioshed" religions in the majority of the colonies and also have rules which barred people of some religions from either voting or holding public office?
If you wanted to say "The colonists came to America so that they would be free to practice THEIR own religion, but not necessarily so that the people who practiced the religion(s) that had persecuted them could also practice their religion." I'd agree with you.
SGT James Hastings - Sergeant; If what the colonists wanted was the freedom for everyone to practice their own religion why did they have "establioshed" religions in the majority of the colonies and also have rules which barred people of some religions from either voting or holding public office?
If you wanted to say "The colonists came to America so that they would be free to practice THEIR own religion, but not necessarily so that the people who practiced the religion(s) that had persecuted them could also practice their religion." I'd agree with you.
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I am a proud Muslim soldier and I find your question ignorant and offensive. With that being said young troop I'm going to offer a little advice. First I want you to take time a learn a little more about the beautiful religion that is Islam before you pass judgment. Number 2 realize that as a soldier you fight for the right of religious freedom regardless of whether or not you agree with it. Number 3 watch what you say on social media especially a military based website, because they Army regularly monitors sites such as these and your words can be used against you to support UCMJ action.
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Sgt Kelli Mays
SFC (Join to see) you notice he has not photo, no base assignment and no city or state.
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PV2 (Join to see)
Thank you for your comments SFC (Join to see). I respect your faith and appreciate your input. Have a wonderful day.
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Though it's easy to do, it's not fair to say all Muslims are bad.....or evil. Not all Muslims want us dead or to harm us in any way. I want to sometimes put them all into one "bad" category, but I don't.
Last month I walked into a gas station. A female covered from head to toe in black...which turned me off immediately...two children with her...one boy and one girl...dressed normally. The female had pretty light blue eyes and I could see some blonde hair...my first thought was not a good one...but I had to tell myself this was her choice, her prerogative. I automatically want to put these people in the "bad" category, but I always catch myself and don't....when I went back out to finish pumping gas, they were right next to me. Her husband, a Muslim asked me for directions....I politely answered and he thanked me.
No matter how much we want to group all Muslims into the "bad" category....we shouldn't. They are not all bad people.
Last month I walked into a gas station. A female covered from head to toe in black...which turned me off immediately...two children with her...one boy and one girl...dressed normally. The female had pretty light blue eyes and I could see some blonde hair...my first thought was not a good one...but I had to tell myself this was her choice, her prerogative. I automatically want to put these people in the "bad" category, but I always catch myself and don't....when I went back out to finish pumping gas, they were right next to me. Her husband, a Muslim asked me for directions....I politely answered and he thanked me.
No matter how much we want to group all Muslims into the "bad" category....we shouldn't. They are not all bad people.
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Sgt Kelli Mays
PV2 Scott Goodpasture - Seriously, this makes no sense. I'm Half German and Half Japanese. I know first hand how my ancestors felt...especially on the Japanese side....I had relatives locked up in the concentration camps because the US and Canada thought all Japanese were bad. yeah, it doesn't work that way.
There was nothing good about the BAD Germans....but there were WAY MORE GOOD GERMANS than there were bad Germans...Just as there were Way more Good Japanese than there were bad Japanese....just as in your post....There are Hundreds of Millions of Muslims...not just from the Middle east...there are Muslims in India, Indonesia, Africa, and throughout the Orient....so are you going to label them all as BAD people??? Just because there are a handful of REALLY REALLY BAD ONES?
There was nothing good about the BAD Germans....but there were WAY MORE GOOD GERMANS than there were bad Germans...Just as there were Way more Good Japanese than there were bad Japanese....just as in your post....There are Hundreds of Millions of Muslims...not just from the Middle east...there are Muslims in India, Indonesia, Africa, and throughout the Orient....so are you going to label them all as BAD people??? Just because there are a handful of REALLY REALLY BAD ONES?
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PV2 Scott Goodpasture
Thanks for making my point. Yes there were way more good Germans than bad. Didn't stop the bad ones did it? It did not matter.
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Sgt Kelli Mays
PV2 Scott Goodpasture - I'm afraid it seems you look at everything as the glass is half empty. Try to be more positive and see the good in things. Don't automatically label certain things are all bad just because there are a handful that are really really bad.
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