Posted on Jan 13, 2016
1LT Platoon Leader
16.5K
282
186
7
7
0
Edited 9 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 54
Capt Tom Brown
4
4
0
Can't help but believe that info provided by our own gvt was total BS such as you see on TV when gvt wants to conceal what actually happened, probably for good military reasons, but the story is so phoney as to make one shake their head. They could have come up with something more believable. At the same time the crews and higher-ups exercised excellent judgement in not putting up any resistance to the Iranian Coast Guard, keeping the incident at a simple law-enforcement level and not a military provocation on our part.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SCPO Jason McLaughlin
4
4
0
Yeah, one of the Sailors was wearing white socks in uniform. Got my Senior Chief up.....
(4)
Comment
(0)
COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
9 y
MCPO Roger Collins - Master Chief; If the Iranian ship was within Iranian territorial waters, then taking its crew "into custody" while on a "rescue mission" would have been illegal - as the crew had every legal right to be where they were.

If the Iranian ship had been within "international waters", then taking its crew "into custody" while on a "rescue mission" would have been illegal - as the crew had every legal right to be where they were.

If the Iranian ship had been within American territorial waters then taking its crew "into custody" while on a "rescue mission" would have been quite permissible - as the crew had no legal right to be where they were in the first place.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
(0)
Reply
(0)
COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
9 y
MCPO Roger Collins - Master Chief; No nation has the right to "detain" persons not already in violation of their laws in places where they do not have territorial jurisdiction ("Piracy" being an exception).

If the Iranian vessel was within US territorial waters (without the permission of the US government) then the US government has the legal right to "detain" both the vessel and the crew due to their "unlawful presence" within those territorial waters - whether the "detention" was consequent upon a "rescue" or not is irrelevant.

Technically speaking, the "rescuing" authority is entitled to send the "rescued" authority a bill for the cost of the rescue and hold the rescued VESSEL as security for the payment of that bill (although this is VERY seldom done).
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CDR Surface Warfare Officer
3
3
0
When you are outgunned and severely restricted by the ROE thus is what happens.
(3)
Comment
(0)
COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
9 y
CDR (Join to see) - Commander; When you are in "the other guy's" territorial waters in a boat that doesn't have a functioning engine, this is what happens.

For a USN vessel to open fire on an Iranian Navy vessel while both are in Iranian territorial waters is what is known in the trade as an "Act of War" and one of the (unstated) clauses in every set of ROE is "Don't do something stupid and start a war by accident.".
(0)
Reply
(0)
CDR Surface Warfare Officer
CDR (Join to see)
9 y
Agree with your statement, however Iran is a signatory of UNCLOS and in being so so should have merely rendered assistance to take them out of ttw. That being said the years of restraint put on USN vessels has created a mindset of don't do anything the Iranians would construe as aggressive and led to our people being essentially kidnapped by a nation that is supposedly trying to improve relations.

Now all that being said, it would have been prudent to steer a course to remain well clear of Farsi Island.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO2 Kevin Morris
3
3
0
I have been out of the Navy for almost 20 years now, but I was watching the pictures of these sailors on the news today and couldn't help but wonder, "When did woodland cammies and OD Green sweaters become a Navy uniform?"
(3)
Comment
(0)
PO2 Kevin Morris
PO2 Kevin Morris
9 y
Thanks, Jason.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
9 y
PO2 Kevin Morris The Navy must have 'cool' uniforms to attract prospects! Or we'll never need to know: they were Seals who are so compenent, they can escape a lot of attention to their uniform.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
CSM Charles Hayden - Yes sir, nothing catches the eye more than a Dixie sup on your head. We do have some rather different uniforms, at times. BUT, that is to keep the riff raff away and get them to join the ranks of the pretty boys and girls.
(1)
Reply
(0)
CPO David Sharp
CPO David Sharp
9 y
Small Boat Units, MIUW Units Inshore Boat Units and Seabees all fall under the NECC therefore are issued cammies . The SEALs fall under this Command but are a very different aspect.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Jason Mackay
3
3
0
So did the Iranians keep the boats, COMSEC, navigation equipment, radios and weapons?
(3)
Comment
(0)
LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
9 y
Hopefullly our guys were smart enough (and/or had enough time) to dump the radio fills and other sensitive gear overboard before they were taken.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
LTC Paul Labrador - I was never assigned to a ship or shore facility that didn't have an Emergency destruct procedure that was routinely reviewed. Of course my profession was communications, crypto and a lot of classified info was involved. No telling what they had on hand, since these boats were very new and loaded with hi tech equipment. Now the Iranians had access to all that.
(0)
Reply
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
9 y
I think they got swarmed, so who knows. Looks like we got boats back...but appears Iranians gathered up everything at some point
(0)
Reply
(0)
Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
9 y
I read somewhere that they kept the GPS equipment. So we'll never know if the boats were indeed in Iranian waters as claimed.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LCDR Sales & Proposals Manager Gas Turbine Products
2
2
0
Edited 9 y ago
As much as I hate to admit it, the Skippers involved didn't have much of a choice. As I've looked into the details (what few there are) more, it seems less likely they slowly drifted into Iranian waters after mechanical failure...than it is they made a navigational error and found themselves inside Iranian (real Iranian) waters AND surrounded by small craft. Even if the earlier assertion is true, towing may have been impossible; I'm not an expert on the CB-90 RCBs, but out on the open water, there's no telling what effect currents and available horsepower would've had on their speed of advance-Perhaps they tried, and that's why they got caught. At any rate, any red-blooded Sailor would like to claim the answer would've been to make a run for safe water ,or if truly DIW...go weapons red and free, and dare them to , "Molon labe!"

Reality however, which is always a "downer",is that these guys had orders they probably hated as much as any of us would-and the Iranians knew it. If there had been even the slightest question in the Republican Guards minds that our folks would've resisted, you'd have seen them quickly "permit" the US to come haul these craft back-and it's unlikely the current COC has that kind of nerve. More to the point, if he truly couldn't maneuver, then engaging even inferior craft, with no guarantee of back-up, could've been a suicide mission. Skip brought his crew home safe, and my hat's off to him for it.

Now, what I would like to know, is whether or not someone from above also ordered our Sailors to surrender their vessels without an attempt to scuttle them, or destroy their comms/navigation equipment. Perhaps there are capabilities for "software" corruption on board we don't know about? If not, then a possible option would've been to transfer crew from the "down" craft to the "up" craft and put a hole in the bilges, before putting up a rooster tail heading back to the line...but that's just me being optimistic.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Warren Swan
2
2
0
SGM this is a good question. I would like to have the retired LTC Fox News "expert" answer it with a one word response, being on my FB feed, it was Obama's fault all the way around. We'll never get a straight answer on this, and I doubt the President will either. But I do wonder how many new civilians will be made out of this?
(2)
Comment
(0)
SGM David W. Carr  LOM, DMSM  MP SGT
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT
9 y
SSG Warren Swan it is just scary to think that they were so easily captured and why they drifted into Iran's waters. As you said we will never get the whole truth.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Michael Hasbun
2
2
0
They were tiny little 5 crew PT boats, not Battleships.
(2)
Comment
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
SFC Michael Hasbun - Where has that been done effectively.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
9 y
MCPO Roger Collins - That we are not very good at it does not negate it's occurrence ;o) Well, let me rephrase. We are very good at toppling regimes and/or training/arming oppositional groups, we just aren't very good at ensuring those people don't become tomorrows enemy...
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
SFC Michael Hasbun - Works for me, but that was not what you said.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
9 y
Yes it was. I said I can't blame them for being suspicious because of our history of behind the scenes military interference.

Lets look at the last few major players. Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, ISIS for example. What do they all have in common? At some point, every single one received either training, arms, money, logistical support or equipment from us.

We tend to create our enemies. Whether this is intentional, I leave for others to discuss, but that our foreign policy lends itself to follow on violence is, I believe, historically undeniable.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
2
2
0
Not a Navy guy by any means but this stills sounds very weird to me. I really cannot understand how this can happen to two boats at the same time and that they could not avoid drifting into Iranian waters.
(2)
Comment
(0)
PO3 Paul Anderson
PO3 Paul Anderson
9 y
Both boats Nav went down? It is a common route . I would think some of the experienced guys would certainly know the go/no-go areas!
(1)
Reply
(0)
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
9 y
Ok, understood and I will again state my ignorance of naval operations. Still, I have to ask, what kind of operations do these boats typically have that would take them close to Iranian waters?
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPO Steelworker
CPO (Join to see)
9 y
They do convoy escorts and security patrols for US ships. Their mission is to work in the littoral and intercostal water ways. They are trained in small arms tactics on ground and small boats. Why the LT did what he did I don't know. Why did the Senior NCO not do anything we don't know and never will. I would hope someone backed up the Tracking system so they can at least see where they went off if they did. I know some people in that community and they are some what in the know and won't tell me much but are leading me to believe something is not right... As you know they are going through all SOP's and TTP's and mechanical gear check's. The other thing is they just did a RIP about a month ago so may not have had all the routes locked down. You can only do so much in a RIP to make sure the guy's re-leaving you are locked on.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
9 y
I'd like to see the map of where they thought they were, where the Iranian say they were, where we thought they were, and where they actually were.
(3)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
PO2 Mark Saffell
2
2
0
That's a very good question. I understand if one had engine trouble and the other was there to aid. But if one was able to move why did they allow themselves to get into troubled waters is my question.
(2)
Comment
(0)
SGM David W. Carr  LOM, DMSM  MP SGT
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT
9 y
PO2 Mark Saffell As an Army guy I asked my WWII Seabee dad
What happened to towing disabled equipment?.
He just had to shake his head and wondered why there was only a crew of 10 sailors
(1)
Reply
(0)
LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
9 y
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT - It was a riverine patrol boat. They have small crews.
(2)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Mark Saffell
PO2 Mark Saffell
9 y
The part I don't understand is that if one was broke down, why didn't the other one tow it out???
(3)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Dale W.
SSgt Dale W.
9 y
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT - I can just imagine the conversation: "Wilson, throw them a line and rig for tow!" "Uh, Skipper, we don't have any line. It's not on our equipment list."
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close