Do you believe that these West Point first classman are violating the UCMJ by making a political statement while in uniform?

CPT (Anonymous) - I don't go by the talking heads either, but I do believe what I see and hear from group leaders. BLM is not peaceful nor is it a "Civil Rights" group. It was founded on a lie (mistake?) and has been involved in promoting violence. They are no better than our elected officials who jump to the wrong conclusions with minimal evidence. I do agree that they are a reaction to perceived injustice however misdirected and that problems in our country need to be addressed. Racially motivated groups are usually on the wrong path.

CPT (Anonymous) - Wow , you seem to be lock stock and barrel as a Democrat operative. Race relations have been hurt more by Pres Obama than any other administration since Jackson. He has weighed in on news events with little or inaccurate information and stoked the flames of racial animosity with his ill timed, ill thought out input, starting with the incident with the Harvard professor, continuing on with Trayvon Martin, and his support for BLM (based on a lie, false witness testimony in Ferguson), etc.
Voter Suppression? Total BS, there is nothing racial or party sided about Voter ID laws that is a total falsehood
Gerrymandering is done by incumbents of both parties (almost always to protect "safe' seats and to ensure minority seats in urban areas)
Mass Incarceration? Even if we release all non-violent drug offenders (which I think we should), 70%+ of murders are black on black in the US while only comprising about12-15% of the population; we have a serious cultural/moral crisis with the breakdown of the family that has disproportionately hit the black community and is at the heart of the Democratic Party's aim to have big government replace parents
Katrina? Are you f'ing serious? Blame the Dem Gov and the lack of preparedness; that was not race related at all. Texas and Alabama recovered mush better and faster; Louisiana hasn't learned the lessons since Huey Long and have by far some of the most corrupt political manueverings in the entire country.
NRA? WTF? How is the inherent basic right self defense race related?
Women's Health? Do you mean abortion? I thought Obamacare made all that free and covered? Contraceptives and abortion are not in any way "health: care. And your comment about that hitting minority women harder is the sin of soft racism that is inherent in your entire argument. You think minority women are not as capable of keeping their legs closed or waiting for marriage to have kids? Wow, that is the most racist thing of your entire racist comment. You sir, are a pawn filled with false blame and false data. I pity you and those who don't take responsibility for your own actions and then look for a scapegoat.

Walter Lukesh , it's actually a blessing for us that you left the Army. I can only assume by your pointless and disrespectful comments on this thread, that you weren't so successful with your military "career".

I'm also quite sure that you got out because you hated it, your leadership was garbage, someone was always trying to hold you back, the Army was this and that, and so on. What did you do to change it..? Nothing, that's what. You probably got out for whatever bitter reason, now here you are on a site for all service members, be disrespectful, and making yourself sound ignorant I might add, because you still have no respect for others and absolutely no discipline.

It's completely fine to disagree with another individual, but you should only comment on a topic if you have valid points that support your point of view on the topic.

Making unprofessional and disrespectful comments about an individual's MOS, branch, or simple 1-4 word comments, etc. will never help you. It will only show your ignorance and immaturity.

I hope you get your yourself together and can at least be a productive member of society as a civilian.

From this point on, do us all a favor and make your points as I mentioned or simply do not comment.

LTC Eric Coger

Walter Lukesh - Who is in the Air Force and has a desk job (nothing wrong with those, we wouldn't have them if we didn't need them), but my profile says otherwise. Though, it has nothing to do with this thread.

1LT Kurt Mccarthy - So my point is made, we are judging the cadets because of the color of there skin and whats going on in America? So you are telling me we have a race tensions going on in America in 2016? Maybe you should look at your intentions if you feel you have to use a cropped photo. So what makes you any different than these cadets? I reposted the picture to bait people like you, to show people will do things to keep sh@t going.

1SG Antonio Blount - Yes there is a huge amount of racial tension in America. I see what your point is, so I ask what is your take on the attached photos? Citadel Cadets stating that they were dressed as "Ghosts" while singing Christmas carols? These Cadets were suspended and very well should have been. "People like me" see through the photo for what it is. My last silver bullet went to my African American NCO over two other white NCOs. My point stands that they are Officers in the United States Army and should have had better situational awareness. Some of the Cadets looked uncomfortable while they took the picture. Therefore, some of them seemed to know that it wasn't a good gesture to make. These are now Lieutenants that will be leading Soldiers. If one of them cant think to themselves and say not right now, then how will they react in a combat situation? Just because you chose to look at the picture superficially doesn't mean everybody will. There seems to be an overwhelming amount of "people like me" on this website. I honestly could care less where they stand, I am stating that there should have been more awareness when in Uniform. It reflects poorly on the Army as a whole, especially when it is Leaders that are making the statement. Here is the link to the article. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/citadel-cadets-caught-wearing-kkk-hoods-singing-carols-article-1.2462139

I think me and you are having a pretty good debate here and we are respecting each other’s views. I do see your point but we as leaders shouldn’t be quick to jump to conclusion because a lot of other people are commenting on this picture negatively. I never looked at the picture as black lives movement support, but when I read a lot of the comments I was like, I could see there points of view but no unless we are looking at the color of their skin. I’m one for facts, not theories and social media, I would want to see the AR 15-6 or commander inquiry. From that I could make a more accurate decision on if this was a black lives movement gesture or support. Now for the ghost photo, dressed as Ghost while singing Christmas carols same thing, let me see the AR 15-6 or commander inquiry before I pass my professional judgement, now for my personal judgement, I would say, I’m not bying it. Sometimes our initial responses can cause lasting impressions when an act is innocence was involved even if judgment warranted a better judgement or think process. In cases like this, we as leads now get to be mentor and hopefully guide whomever in the right direction.

SFC That is not the correct way of looking at it. Everyone in that picture is over 18 and full adults. What is the age a person has to get to before they are accountable for their actions, 25, 35, 45? When do we stop saying "they are kids we all do stupid things as kids". I take it you do not discipline your young Soldiers because they are just kids. We give them weapons and send them out to do violent things but hey their just kids.

As far as what these future leaders are doing I will leave it alone. As far as I care the investigation was done and they were dealt with and they learned a valuable lesson that "if" they were allowed to continue their careers then they will take this with them. I have to trust those leaders in charge of them and know them personally made the right decision one way or the other.

2LT Victor Porsenna - "No one hates white people"... What did Louis Farrakhan mean when he called for an Army of 10000 to kill "Whitey"?
Rosa Parks wasn't the first woman of color to refuse a seat in the back of the bus and she didn't trash and burn the bus.
That ship has sailed and a decision has been made.

Claudette Colvin was the 15 year old who refused to give up her seat 9 months prior to Rosa Parks. The NAACP and other organizations didnt think Claudette fit the image. Interesting history

SSG Dennis Grossmann - Most reasonable people do not hate anybody for arbitrary reasons. I dont think that Farrakhan is a reasonable person judging by his homophobic and anti Semitic speech. Also if you replace Colvin with Parks, the core of my message does not change. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish there. If you like I would be glad to talk to you in the private messages.

2LT Victor Porsenna - I'm not trying to start anything, I realize that you are a very reasonable person and have the chance for a very good career of you choose to do so. My Faux Pas was using one of my former writing professors pet peeves that rubbed off on me. That's the use of concrete words over general. You are correct that most reasonable people don't hate. So I do apologize. This subject has been beaten to death. The investigation is over and done whether anyone agrees or disagrees with it, the decision stands.

TSgt Carolyn Morgan - Exactly! Imagine that....asking instead of assuming. Finally, someone who isn't jumping to conclusions. Thank you TSgt. Thank you.

LT Charles Baird, we have made exceptions for religions in uniform for decades. Jews can wear a Yarmulke. Mormons can wear their magic underwear. Christians can wear chains with the cross on them. We have modified the uniform of chaplains over time to address their religions. None of them have the right to make political opinions in public while in uniform. You are mixing apples and hand grenades. Both are generally the same shape and can be held in the hand, but the one with the pin should NOT be eaten. IF the military determines that people in the military can make political statements while in uniform, then game on. Until then...you can't. The Seikhs in question also petitioned the Army properly to have this regulation amended. There is a process. Once again...I can't tell you what was intended by the taking of this photo. I'm not going to presume innocence or guilt. I will state the law as written in UCMJ and the rules laid out in our manuals, doctrine and regulation. Until an investigation is complete, CPT Jack Durish's comment about "airing armpits," may prove to be true. I don't know. I do know that an investigation will determine the outcome of this case, and I pray that if they are found to be guilty that they are held to account for it because the worst thing that could happen is the erosion of the bedrock of ethics here. Now...I don't think it should be extreme if they are guilty. These ladies need a wake up call regarding their rights and what you can and can't do. Maybe a refresher in ethics.

LOL!!! CPT Durish, you have a great outlook on life!

Done...http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/us/west-point-cadets-photo/

I never realized you were black, I just thought you were one HELL of a fantastic actor.

SFC Jim Ruether - that is probably one of the greatest speeches given in my lifetime. Also my favorite.

A1C Melissa Jackson - no, he simply stated that there are preconceived notions when some people (race and gender neutral) think that one group has an advantage over another simply because of their color, or that one group is being held back by another. Most of what happens to a person, good or bad is by the decisions they make. If I went next door and shot my neighbor, is that society's fault? Depends, some say oh he was raised inner city and was never given a chance. Bullstick, I am responsible for my actions. The notion of White Privilege or Brown Privilege or purple privilege is nonsense. In the military when you step off that bus for the first time until you get your walking papers you are clear, gender neutral, and asexual. The only thing that changes is your first name. I went from Private to Staff Sergeant as my first name. Now I'm out, my name is Dad.

A1C Melissa Jackson - I prefer whiskey but fish are biting.

Who says BLM has anything to do with the gesture in the picture. Who says BLM is negative....or racist?? That's the part that blows my mind in this entire controversy?

SPC James Anderson - I'm sure they'd love to specific about their heritage and where in Africa they came from. But they can't. Cuz reasons.

let's see these young adults whoever they are, using the very same gesture, a gesture that has been used throughout time to show excitement of winning or getting ones point across not exclusive to BLM, NAACP, ACLU or other racial group/groups the gesture is universal and whoever started the tread on this subject has to much time on their hands, it appears that we as a people keep looking for something to further stoked the flames of racism!!!

Sir, I think you have 100% hit the nail on the head. While I don't believe the photo was meant to support BLM or support hate speech against anyone, that is just my personal belief. I do have faith that the 15-6 (or whatever investigation USMA initiated) will do the best work possible to impartially find the truth.

Best case scenario (and what I believe) is these Cadets weren't communicating support for a political group, but were exercising very poor judgment, especially with social media. I am sure they have already learned this lesson, but some developmental work/counseling with them to ensure the lesson sticks would help them and the Army. I also help the entire Corps of Cadets (and other Soldiers) learn a lesson from this episode.

Worst case scenario, they were making a political statement, and LTG Caslen will have to make a determination on what to do with these cadets. Either way, I believe the investigation and any subsequent UCMJ (or USMA boards) will handle this appropriately.

It's done...http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/us/west-point-cadets-photo/

aaaand...the Rocket again.

They chose as a group to do this...Stand back and think on that a moment.... They decided that was more important than following the rules and representing the US military... They made their choice...

I'm with you too sir!

There goes General Dempsey, acting like a kid again.

While I don't think the Cadets in the photo did anything wrong (believe); General Dempsey is leading the Corps of Cadets in "The Rocket", a traditional USMA Cheer. The photo is taken out of context (and probably is a still from a video).

They are doing the rocket cheer.(USMA tradition) And whoever cleverly cropped all non-white students out is shameful.

the realness I see if this either a political statement or its not. neither of us knows.given the history of the fist gesture used by the black panthers during the civil rights movement, it seems more like one seeing as all cadets here are black. no problem expressing political affiliations, I do it too. just not in uniform. im all about giving the benefit of the doubt. but like I said, the historic political affiliation of that gesture being used by blacks decades ago and black cadets here using the same gesture, to me, seems too connected for much if any BOTD.
who knows, I could be completely wrong, and if I am, its whatever. but that's not up to me, im aware that the army is investigating this picture either way.

Leo you make a valid point. I get you! CPT L S

CPT (Anonymous) - Is it "CPT "Anonymous," or "CPT Oblivious?"