Posted on Feb 25, 2018
How important is wisdom in today's military leadership?
30.3K
506
115
81
81
0
Where do you rank "wisdom" in conjunction with other leadership attributes or characteristics? Can it be taught or does it develop over time? Is there such a thing as young wisdom versus old wisdom?
Share your thoughts about the importance of wisdom in today's military leadership? Is it present today in our leadership, are we losing it, and will it be there for in the future?
Should we place a higher emphasis on Wisdom during junior and senior leadership training?
Share your thoughts about the importance of wisdom in today's military leadership? Is it present today in our leadership, are we losing it, and will it be there for in the future?
Should we place a higher emphasis on Wisdom during junior and senior leadership training?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 68
Sir years ago it would've been the most important thing alongside experience. Now I'm not so sure. With Sequestration, "Zero-Defect Army", "Up and Out", and revisions on what seems to be everything we hold dear, except wisdom and experience I feel that it's not required. If you can BS with the best, look like a model in uniform, have a 600 on a 300 point APFT, and be an insufferable ass to your subordinates, forget any creed out there except where you put in the part when you will be promoted ahead of peers.
Once upon an Army, getting an Art15 was a way of life. It was either expected you'd get one, or at least be recommended for it. Most who got them I knew, took it on the chin, manned up (even when rank was lost), and if allowed to stay in, were some of the best leaders I ever had. For those I knew who were not allowed to stay in, even they were some of the best being once they got over the hurt and pain of the incident, they still knew many of us were still there, and would talk to us off post whenever we got together. They'd tell us not to screw up like them. For me almost all of the SNCO's I had received an Art15 they bounced back from. You can't do that anymore. You won't recover from it. So that wisdom is gone the second the offender is. I came in under "Be All That You Can Be, Get An Edge On Life in the Army". I considered it a badge of honor being it was used when my father was in, and I hated when it became "Army Strong" (dude running the wrong way with his Alice large....still haven't lived that one down from my friends in sister services). Now they should bring back "Be All That You Can Be" with a correction of "Be All That YOU Can Be Screw The Rest" get an edge on your peers in the Army". Wisdom and Experience is not required.
For anyone who thinks I'm just a salty ass for what I said, It's not that I am upset or bothered by anything I did in my career. I had great leaders, but was a hardhead, and got what I deserved, maybe less than. I'm more bothered by what I've seen towards the end of my time with the speed changes that were implemented, removed, reimplimented, revised, removed, wash rinse repeat with better names that for the first time gave equal screwing to everyone without the chance to be right, do right but what's not popular, only what you can do to help yourself and your career. But we got a new APFU, ASU's, Multi-Cam, and soon Pinks and Greens. We also have higher TRICARE rates, service branches who won't levy their strength on the VA, and politics in the ranks at levels I've never seen before, discussed openly like I've never seen before, and blatant disrespect for elected officials that before would've had your ass in a sling, but is accepted. Wisdom and Experience would've told troops to not give up your beliefs, do not sacrifice your beliefs, but we are apolitical in uniform and you will maintain that standard no matter what you believe.
Once upon an Army, getting an Art15 was a way of life. It was either expected you'd get one, or at least be recommended for it. Most who got them I knew, took it on the chin, manned up (even when rank was lost), and if allowed to stay in, were some of the best leaders I ever had. For those I knew who were not allowed to stay in, even they were some of the best being once they got over the hurt and pain of the incident, they still knew many of us were still there, and would talk to us off post whenever we got together. They'd tell us not to screw up like them. For me almost all of the SNCO's I had received an Art15 they bounced back from. You can't do that anymore. You won't recover from it. So that wisdom is gone the second the offender is. I came in under "Be All That You Can Be, Get An Edge On Life in the Army". I considered it a badge of honor being it was used when my father was in, and I hated when it became "Army Strong" (dude running the wrong way with his Alice large....still haven't lived that one down from my friends in sister services). Now they should bring back "Be All That You Can Be" with a correction of "Be All That YOU Can Be Screw The Rest" get an edge on your peers in the Army". Wisdom and Experience is not required.
For anyone who thinks I'm just a salty ass for what I said, It's not that I am upset or bothered by anything I did in my career. I had great leaders, but was a hardhead, and got what I deserved, maybe less than. I'm more bothered by what I've seen towards the end of my time with the speed changes that were implemented, removed, reimplimented, revised, removed, wash rinse repeat with better names that for the first time gave equal screwing to everyone without the chance to be right, do right but what's not popular, only what you can do to help yourself and your career. But we got a new APFU, ASU's, Multi-Cam, and soon Pinks and Greens. We also have higher TRICARE rates, service branches who won't levy their strength on the VA, and politics in the ranks at levels I've never seen before, discussed openly like I've never seen before, and blatant disrespect for elected officials that before would've had your ass in a sling, but is accepted. Wisdom and Experience would've told troops to not give up your beliefs, do not sacrifice your beliefs, but we are apolitical in uniform and you will maintain that standard no matter what you believe.
(27)
(0)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SSG Warren Swan I appreciate everything you've shared this morning and I would never think your an old salty NCO my friend. There has been a lot of change since we left the military and I saw a lot of change from 1975 to 2012, some good, some bad, and some down right ugly. I love the fact that we've got an all volunteer Army and military Services, but will it last at the current rate of change. Will the All Volunteer Service Concept survive the test of time? Have a great Sunday Warren! Respect my friend!
(7)
(0)
SSG Warren Swan
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - "I love the fact that we've got an all volunteer Army and military Services, but will it last at the current rate of change. Will the All Volunteer Service Concept survive the test of time"? The million dollar question. In the 90's Clinton had an economy that was good to be in, so when he made the 15yr retirement, I saw a LOT of folks retire on Friday, back on Monday as Mr, Ms, or whatever. That made it "easier" for both recruitment and getting out. Since 9/11 we have not been stable, and I don't care what the DOW does. It's not putting money in my bank account. With the changes we're making, the economy being in complete flux, more and more tasking's with less and less qualified individuals, the non stop media talk of "too weak, too fat, too dependent, too whatever to serve", we're not exactly having a "banner" season at recruiting (although we're making the numbers) let alone what the services need or want. Troops want stability while being flexible. You can give me money and that's fine, but I want to spend it, and I'd need time to do that. Time I wouldn't have much of today. They want an environment that wants them to excel as a TEAM and INDIVIDUAL, we have the individual covered twice over.
Wanna make the military fun again? Bring back the garrison fuck fuck games. No one liked em, but there was a purpose; keep minds busy. Give you something constructive the TEAM hated, and give the TEAM the ability to improve on to get out of that one particular "game" and onto the next. Bring back simple traditions, NCO/Officer calls, a way to get to know your peers who otherwise you wouldn't see or talk to. Have senior leaders tell their subordinates they won't play the "suck up to the best" games and if you suck, you'll be told that. If you're good you will be rewarded regardless of rank, and stress evals are a capsule of time. They aren't always a reflection of you, how hard you work, and you can recover. We'll help you. If you cannot recover, we'll thank you for your time, and send you properly into your next career. Nothing I've mentioned required rewriting anything, but reinforcement of every creed from O's to NCO's from the top down to the team leaders.
Have a blessed Sunday Sir. Lot of good racing coming on and the Walking Dead premiere tonight.
Wanna make the military fun again? Bring back the garrison fuck fuck games. No one liked em, but there was a purpose; keep minds busy. Give you something constructive the TEAM hated, and give the TEAM the ability to improve on to get out of that one particular "game" and onto the next. Bring back simple traditions, NCO/Officer calls, a way to get to know your peers who otherwise you wouldn't see or talk to. Have senior leaders tell their subordinates they won't play the "suck up to the best" games and if you suck, you'll be told that. If you're good you will be rewarded regardless of rank, and stress evals are a capsule of time. They aren't always a reflection of you, how hard you work, and you can recover. We'll help you. If you cannot recover, we'll thank you for your time, and send you properly into your next career. Nothing I've mentioned required rewriting anything, but reinforcement of every creed from O's to NCO's from the top down to the team leaders.
Have a blessed Sunday Sir. Lot of good racing coming on and the Walking Dead premiere tonight.
(4)
(0)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SSG Warren Swan - Roger that - well documented and stated my friend. There is merit in everything you had to say Warren. Tiem will tell the story, but it's about to be written I believe it is about to be written in the next 10 years. I could be wrong or off in my timing.
(5)
(0)
SGT Nickolas Ortiz
During the 1990's, I, too, was given an Article 15. Lost rank, did my time, but I got out. It was a time when certain infractions that were once shrugged off were being punished. For me, when a married NCO broke a rule but was not punished because he was a "family man", but a single NCO was made an example of for the same infraction, I knew it was time to get out. The Military was becoming too political for my tastes.
(0)
(0)
Wisdom is the ability to learn from experience. IMHO, not every seems to be able to do that. Some people seem to grow in widom as they mature. Others, not so much.
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth CSM Darieus ZaGara Capt Tom Brown Maj Marty Hogan SPC Margaret Higgins SP5 Mark Kuzinski Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen LTC John Griscom LTC John Shaw A1C Ian Williams TSgt Ronald White Kathlean Keesler Capt Dwayne Conyers
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth CSM Darieus ZaGara Capt Tom Brown Maj Marty Hogan SPC Margaret Higgins SP5 Mark Kuzinski Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen LTC John Griscom LTC John Shaw A1C Ian Williams TSgt Ronald White Kathlean Keesler Capt Dwayne Conyers
(18)
(0)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Lt Col Charlie Brown - if we all learned to cultivate those learnings from the beginning and kept passing them down, what a wonderful world this would be. I believe that our society has gone through periods of great wisdom and periods of low wisdom. I think you get my meaning. "Have we reached a period of low wisdom in this country right now?" Great discussion piece and I think you should post that as question Charlie!
(6)
(0)
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Wisdom is what separates a leader from a great leader. Almost anyone can lead but those who know how to apply wisdom are the ones others want to follow again.
(7)
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Often the lessons learned best are learned from the mistakes You made earlier. Experience is the best way to find out what works and what does not. Taking Your lumps and bruises and learning from them and hopefully becoming a good leader to help other get through those hurdles and also become leaders. I've seen major changes to the positive with people who when given responsibility rose to the occasion despite a rough start in their careers and became top notch. Often those were they guys that would take change and have Your back.
(4)
(0)
Susan Foster
So well said. Maturity in itself doesn't always make us wiser. If our experiences, including and especially our mistakes, can become wisdom, we are truly growing as a person and a leader.
(2)
(0)
Wisdom is a rare, very rare commodity. Thankfully, it isn't a requisite for leaders though people with wisdom are leaders without authority. The wisest man in America, for me, is Mike Rowe. I pray that no one ever lures him into seeking elected office. That ruins a person.
I prefer my leaders to have principles and common sense, very uncommon commodities
I prefer my leaders to have principles and common sense, very uncommon commodities
(16)
(0)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
I'm honored that you responded to my post this morning Jack. Great feedback and thoughts this early morning my friend. I like the principles and common sense as well, but wisdom can be cultivated and handed down. I know for a fact you've got a lot of wisdom from the good, the bad, and the ugly you've experience over the last 75 years. Have a great Sunday and I look forward to March 2018 CPT Jack Durish
(5)
(0)
CSM Richard Welsch
I could not agree with you more.I beleave the lord picks his sheeps and wolf.Theirs nothing wrong with being a sheep their just not made to be Warfighter’Same goes for being a leader,that’s something you can’t learn in a text book and you value everyone’s thoughts.You lead by example . Once your unite sees you get down and dirty and not just point your finger goes a long way.
We always had a saying.
Rule #1 Don’t get lost
Rule # 2 If you get lost reamine cool.
# 3 If rule number #2 fails refer to rule number one .
We always had a saying.
Rule #1 Don’t get lost
Rule # 2 If you get lost reamine cool.
# 3 If rule number #2 fails refer to rule number one .
(2)
(0)
Read This Next