Analysis suggests warlords in Afghanistan are bracing for civil war once US, NATO troops exit

The part that baffles me, Afghan leaders are fence sitters. They wait to see who’ll win after someone does the heavy lift. Don’t know why after 18 years why they haven’t rallied to the government after we did the heavy lift, just to be rid of us...as they hate outsiders. If they were so disapproving of the Taliban, why didn’t they take advantage? We’ll be back after the next 9/11.

LTC Jason Mackay - First, Afghans weren’t all that disapproving of the Taliban. (That discussion is it’s own entire thread).

here’s some of that deeper analysis. But why didn’t they take advantage of the past 18 years? Because they knew that this day was inevitable. It’s far more apt to state that they greatly distrust outsiders as opposed to hate outsiders. And they haven’t trusted us since the beginning. We’ve certainly had our peaks and valleys with the Afghans in past nearly two decades, but I’d refer you back to the Bonn Conference, 2001.

While also worthy of its own entire thread, in a nutshell, we first pushed the idea of installing exiled King Mohammed Zahir Shah (about 90 years old) to leadership. Surprisingly, all sides weren’t opposed, and we essentially pulled the rug and then backed Hamid Karzai. Less popular, more polarizing. More corrupt.

Some of the Northern alliance reps threatened to withdraw the conference if their outlandish proposal of direct elections in Afghanistan for an interim council should be held as opposed to a conference in Germany. Colin Powell got involved and asked the Russians (who had a somewhat good relationship with the Northern Alliance) to intervene, convincing the NA to remain in the conference.

What does all this mean? From the get-go, Afghans viewed our democracy as corrupt and meddling. They haven’t trusted us since the earliest days of the war. We pushed a guy (Shah) that they surprisingly liked, and we didn’t expect them to, so we pushed a different, far less popular guy. When one group called for actual elections, the US went to the Russians (do I need to explain the bad blood there?) to broker influence to get that group to stay in the conference. That didn’t exactly win hearts and minds.

The Afghans at the Bonn conference were/are their peoples’ leaders. What they perceived about us at that conference trickled down to the people over the years. Of course, this isn’t an all-inclusive answer. As I’m sure you know, there is a vast amount of history and nuance.

But it’s an important aspect to remember. Particularly if we have to go back following another 9/11-type attack. Afghans are big on trust, and they’re particularly mistrusting of outsiders. They hold grudges, and they’ll sit on the fence for decades. They’ll smile, take our money, and maybe even warn us if we’re about to walk into an ambush. But if we want them to go all in with us, the next time, we have to be a bit smarter.

I don’t work for the Institute for the Study of War or anything, so what do I know..

SGT (Join to see) your analysis is apt. My sarcasm didn’t bleed through ala the disapproval of the Taliban.

SGT (Join to see) - No. You did not answer my question, Which god of the Kaaba was Muhammad's father and the Uncle he live with named after? Stop trying to get around the question. We both know they are named after Su'en.

Cpl Mark A. Morris - so I didn’t get the answer 100%. I tried. If you could now please return the favor.

SGT (Join to see) - You tried to misdirect. You are an apologist for a mad man who raped, murdered and took a spoil. The Black rock does not take away sin and Abraham was never in Mecca.
Get to following Muhammad, or get another religious/political system.

Cpl Mark A. Morris - Negative. To be fair, your question was poorly worded, as you didn’t specify which Uncle, and Muhammad had several. You first asked, “Which god was Muhammad's father and Uncle named after?” So I rattled off a few of his uncles. I’m the first to admit when I’m wrong, however, so if I didn’t answer to your standard, I appreciate the enlightening response. Knowledge is power.

Speaking of misdirection, you have repeatedly refused to answer a very clearly, directly worded question posed to you. Allow me to repeat..again. “Perhaps you could explain in detail more about female genital mutilation? Is that more of a religious practice or traditional cultural practice? It’s certainly not a uniquely Islam issue.” As you originally shifted the conversation to this topic, this one should be fairly easy for you.

Respectfully, repeatedly refusing to answer isn’t doing much for the ‘higher standards in the Corps’ perception that we previously discussed.

Good luck