Posted on May 20, 2017
Drummer Boys in the civil war- By Halle Lane
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SGT John " Mac " McConnell my goodness this is a solid read, so informational about Drummer boys; especially the 5 things to know about Civil War Drummers.
LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C.
LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C.
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Thanks for reminding us about drummer boys SGT John " Mac " McConnell. In ancient days in Israel, Rome and Persia for instance the drummers were grown men along with other musicians.
Using boys made sense since the men were generally engaged in fights.
At Agincourt in 1485 the French raided the British baggage train and massacred the camp followers, including the boys. In the Zulu Wars Drummer Boys were allegedly hung up & disembowelled by the Zulus. at Isandwahla, as means of preventing the souls of the dead from haunting their killers.
Images: Battle of Balaclava Drummer Boy, an 1854 painting by English artist Richard Buckner; US Civil War Drummer Boy; Drummer Boys Civil War; Boer War drummer boy writing his mum
"Drummer Boy? ? a favourite of Victorian sentimental story & illustration & a well known term but what does it really mean?
Many armies have & still enlist boys ? the 14 years old French Drummer Boy who was the only survivor of an assault on the farm of Hougemont at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815, the million boys of 17 years & under who fought with the Northern forces during the American Civil War, Enlisted by both sides, some were as young as 11, Drummer & Bugle Boys commonly being as young as 13.
When did the British military start using ?boys? as Drummers, officially or otherwise?
A reason to employ Drummer Boys was to convey orders by drum, drumbeat being more easily heard in battle than voice commands, & using a boy for this made best use of the men for fighting.
In medieval times boys were used as Drummers,& Trumpeters & as squires, travelling with the armies baggage columns. They were not usually kept away from the actual fighting.
In 1212, 12 years old Stephen of Cloyes is supposed to have led 30000 children from Marseilles on Crusade to the Holy Land, - they never returned. A similar Crusade was led by a German boy named Nicholas. Unsurprisingly there is doubt as to whether these Crusades actually took place.
At Agincourt in 1485 the French raided the British baggage train, massacring the camp followers, including the boys.
The British employed Drummer Boys during the American War of Independence.
In 1802 regulations referred to ?Lads & Boys? being enlisted as Privates at age 17 ? 19 years , minimum height 5? 4 ?.
It was specified that they were to be enlisted as soldiers & not be ?encouraged? to enlist with the expectation that they would be made Drummers or part of the Band., so it appears that there was recruiting of the under age & those ?still growing? as Drummers & Band Boys.prior to this instruction.
At the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 approximately 4000 boys served in the British army, another 2 battalions being held in reserve.
Often Boys were ?Sons of the Regiment?, following their fathers in service, sometimes orphans of soldiers.
Boys served in the British army during the Crimean War, they served during the Zulu Wars, a well known instance being at Isandwahla, where the Drummer Boys were allegedly hung up & disembowelled by the Zulus as means of preventing the souls of the dead from haunting their killers.
Well into the last century a battalion of infantry included two boys per company, ?Man Service? commencing at 18.
During WWI many under-age boys enlisted in the British army, often via the Recruiting Sergeants advice when they volunteered their real age to go around the corner & come back older ? to give a false age.
One source states that as many as 250000 underage boys served in the British forces during WWI, perhaps 125000 being killed or wounded..
The Canadian forces enlisted at least 6 servicemen under the age of 13 between 1936 ? 39.
There is a claim that during the defence of Carpiquet in Normandy in1944 some of the German defenders were only 10 years old, but perhaps there is a confusion here between the WSS Hitler Jugend Division & the the Hitler Jugend organisaton, although it is claimed that one German fatality was found from his personal documentation to have been only 14."
Thanks for alerting me Maj Marty Hogan SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
LTC Stephen C. LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Tom Brown SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SP5 Robert Ruck SCPO Morris RamseyCPL Eric Escasio
Using boys made sense since the men were generally engaged in fights.
At Agincourt in 1485 the French raided the British baggage train and massacred the camp followers, including the boys. In the Zulu Wars Drummer Boys were allegedly hung up & disembowelled by the Zulus. at Isandwahla, as means of preventing the souls of the dead from haunting their killers.
Images: Battle of Balaclava Drummer Boy, an 1854 painting by English artist Richard Buckner; US Civil War Drummer Boy; Drummer Boys Civil War; Boer War drummer boy writing his mum
"Drummer Boy? ? a favourite of Victorian sentimental story & illustration & a well known term but what does it really mean?
Many armies have & still enlist boys ? the 14 years old French Drummer Boy who was the only survivor of an assault on the farm of Hougemont at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815, the million boys of 17 years & under who fought with the Northern forces during the American Civil War, Enlisted by both sides, some were as young as 11, Drummer & Bugle Boys commonly being as young as 13.
When did the British military start using ?boys? as Drummers, officially or otherwise?
A reason to employ Drummer Boys was to convey orders by drum, drumbeat being more easily heard in battle than voice commands, & using a boy for this made best use of the men for fighting.
In medieval times boys were used as Drummers,& Trumpeters & as squires, travelling with the armies baggage columns. They were not usually kept away from the actual fighting.
In 1212, 12 years old Stephen of Cloyes is supposed to have led 30000 children from Marseilles on Crusade to the Holy Land, - they never returned. A similar Crusade was led by a German boy named Nicholas. Unsurprisingly there is doubt as to whether these Crusades actually took place.
At Agincourt in 1485 the French raided the British baggage train, massacring the camp followers, including the boys.
The British employed Drummer Boys during the American War of Independence.
In 1802 regulations referred to ?Lads & Boys? being enlisted as Privates at age 17 ? 19 years , minimum height 5? 4 ?.
It was specified that they were to be enlisted as soldiers & not be ?encouraged? to enlist with the expectation that they would be made Drummers or part of the Band., so it appears that there was recruiting of the under age & those ?still growing? as Drummers & Band Boys.prior to this instruction.
At the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 approximately 4000 boys served in the British army, another 2 battalions being held in reserve.
Often Boys were ?Sons of the Regiment?, following their fathers in service, sometimes orphans of soldiers.
Boys served in the British army during the Crimean War, they served during the Zulu Wars, a well known instance being at Isandwahla, where the Drummer Boys were allegedly hung up & disembowelled by the Zulus as means of preventing the souls of the dead from haunting their killers.
Well into the last century a battalion of infantry included two boys per company, ?Man Service? commencing at 18.
During WWI many under-age boys enlisted in the British army, often via the Recruiting Sergeants advice when they volunteered their real age to go around the corner & come back older ? to give a false age.
One source states that as many as 250000 underage boys served in the British forces during WWI, perhaps 125000 being killed or wounded..
The Canadian forces enlisted at least 6 servicemen under the age of 13 between 1936 ? 39.
There is a claim that during the defence of Carpiquet in Normandy in1944 some of the German defenders were only 10 years old, but perhaps there is a confusion here between the WSS Hitler Jugend Division & the the Hitler Jugend organisaton, although it is claimed that one German fatality was found from his personal documentation to have been only 14."
Thanks for alerting me Maj Marty Hogan SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
LTC Stephen C. LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Tom Brown SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SP5 Robert Ruck SCPO Morris RamseyCPL Eric Escasio
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LTC Stephen F.
SFC Charles Temm - buglers and drummers certainly had their roles in the volunteer regiments of the north and south during the US Civil War. Those units were not as consistently organized as the Federal Army regiments which were fewer in number and distributed across the nation - even during the Civil War.
Everybody who has served for any length of time in the military understands that additional duties are common and sometime take on a primary role.
While I have an interest in the US Civil War, I am interested in military history in general. I know that ancient armies used drummers and other musicians to control the movement of forces toward battle, in battle and away from battle.
The armies of the western nations since about 1400 began to use drums as the formations marched. Up until the middle of the 19th century [Crimean War, US Civil War] soldiers were generally considered the scum of the earth - mercenaries, prisoners, conscripts who couldn't but their way out of service, etc.
Some armies such as the British regiments and the British Commonwealth regiments used young men and boys to serve as drummers and musicians until the Great war.
Everybody who has served for any length of time in the military understands that additional duties are common and sometime take on a primary role.
While I have an interest in the US Civil War, I am interested in military history in general. I know that ancient armies used drummers and other musicians to control the movement of forces toward battle, in battle and away from battle.
The armies of the western nations since about 1400 began to use drums as the formations marched. Up until the middle of the 19th century [Crimean War, US Civil War] soldiers were generally considered the scum of the earth - mercenaries, prisoners, conscripts who couldn't but their way out of service, etc.
Some armies such as the British regiments and the British Commonwealth regiments used young men and boys to serve as drummers and musicians until the Great war.
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SFC Charles Temm
The volunteer regiments/batteries of the American Civil War were over 95% of the total manpower organized for that war. They were consistently organized on the same basis of what we'd call TOE as the regular army was the template for both sides. The only exceptions to those templates that I know of were the Indian units formed in the territories as they were smaller b/c of being tribal based and tended more towards what we'd call irregulars, largely horse borne at that. Home guard militias were generally company size or smaller except in rare occasions until the last year of war when many Southern states "regularized" them
Again, musicians were critical for communication over the noise & chaos of a battlefield as I've too pointed out. That has nothing to do w/the point of debate however which simply is the romance of the child musician in our war at least is exaggerated. The evidence is pretty solid that the younger ones were mostly weeded out soon and even the Johnson individual was 16, not exactly a child by 19th century standards.
Again, musicians were critical for communication over the noise & chaos of a battlefield as I've too pointed out. That has nothing to do w/the point of debate however which simply is the romance of the child musician in our war at least is exaggerated. The evidence is pretty solid that the younger ones were mostly weeded out soon and even the Johnson individual was 16, not exactly a child by 19th century standards.
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LTC Stephen F.
SFC Charles Temm - actually the regiments of the states were varied to a large degree - especially in the south and as the war progressed equipment including uniforms and weapons varied among southern states.
The regular Army had the equivalent of a TOE for infantry, cavalry, field artillery, shore battery, pioneers [combat engineers] tactical signal, etc. As a practical matter MTOE applied to the actual units since no unit consistently met the TOE requirements - just like today.
Strategic forces were closer to a TDA like today - intel, strategic signal, construction engineers, etc.
Many of the volunteer regiments were organized into infantry and cavalry regiments with field artillery batteries as needed. Initially the volunteers were called up for 90 days until 1st Manassas/Bull Run. The Baltimore riots, results of 1st Bull Run and the subsequent move of the CSA from Montgomery, Alabama to Richmond, Virginia changed the calculus of the planners.
As new weapons were introduced such as repeating rifles, large-caliber mortars and howitzers
Initially the free blacks were organized into Corps d'Afrique regiments with white cadre. Later an "MTOE" for United States Colored Troops (USCT) was initiated in 1863. That year the Corps d'Afrique regiments were disbanded and re-designated USCT.
The regular Army had the equivalent of a TOE for infantry, cavalry, field artillery, shore battery, pioneers [combat engineers] tactical signal, etc. As a practical matter MTOE applied to the actual units since no unit consistently met the TOE requirements - just like today.
Strategic forces were closer to a TDA like today - intel, strategic signal, construction engineers, etc.
Many of the volunteer regiments were organized into infantry and cavalry regiments with field artillery batteries as needed. Initially the volunteers were called up for 90 days until 1st Manassas/Bull Run. The Baltimore riots, results of 1st Bull Run and the subsequent move of the CSA from Montgomery, Alabama to Richmond, Virginia changed the calculus of the planners.
As new weapons were introduced such as repeating rifles, large-caliber mortars and howitzers
Initially the free blacks were organized into Corps d'Afrique regiments with white cadre. Later an "MTOE" for United States Colored Troops (USCT) was initiated in 1863. That year the Corps d'Afrique regiments were disbanded and re-designated USCT.
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SFC Charles Temm
LTC Stephen F. - beg to differ again. No mention of uniforms is needed b/c it's irrelevant. Nor does the length of enlistment or even if units were black or white.
Weapons varied according to what was in the state's armories, what state purchasing agents could find and what any militia units incorporated into them might bring. This had no effect either on size or actual makeup of units especially for this discussion.
THAT said, the basics were the same w/US standard sized 1000 man regiments & 100 man companies largely the norm for the infantry for example. The chief reason was obvious, the majority of senior officers and civ organizers were former West Pointers or other military schools based on the Point's curriculum.
One of the biggest differences was the replacement system, the Southern one of state's assigning such rather than creating new regiments like the North largely did, gave the South larger units as time went on.
Regimental/brigade musicians was the subject & the likelihood of kids being present.
Weapons varied according to what was in the state's armories, what state purchasing agents could find and what any militia units incorporated into them might bring. This had no effect either on size or actual makeup of units especially for this discussion.
THAT said, the basics were the same w/US standard sized 1000 man regiments & 100 man companies largely the norm for the infantry for example. The chief reason was obvious, the majority of senior officers and civ organizers were former West Pointers or other military schools based on the Point's curriculum.
One of the biggest differences was the replacement system, the Southern one of state's assigning such rather than creating new regiments like the North largely did, gave the South larger units as time went on.
Regimental/brigade musicians was the subject & the likelihood of kids being present.
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Tremendous history project for this young lady. Great information and fitting tribute to these unsung heroes SGT John " Mac " McConnell
SP5 Mark KuzinskiCPT Gabe SnellCOL Mikel J. Burroughs SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSLLTC Greg Henning LTC Stephen F. SFC Giovanni Bennett TSgt Joe C.SGT (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Stephen C. SFC (Join to see) CPL Crystal Pettway, MBA MSG Andrew White MSgt John McGowanPO1 John Crafton SP5 Robert Ruck CPL Eric Escasio SPC Douglas Bolton
SP5 Mark KuzinskiCPT Gabe SnellCOL Mikel J. Burroughs SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSLLTC Greg Henning LTC Stephen F. SFC Giovanni Bennett TSgt Joe C.SGT (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Stephen C. SFC (Join to see) CPL Crystal Pettway, MBA MSG Andrew White MSgt John McGowanPO1 John Crafton SP5 Robert Ruck CPL Eric Escasio SPC Douglas Bolton
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SGT John " Mac " McConnell
Great project indeed Maj Marty Hogan . I have never seen so much history on basically non- combatants and the roles they played in battles.
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