Posted on Mar 29, 2017
Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence
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I've heard it stated here that all undocumented immigrants are illegal aliens and criminals by virtue of them being in the country without proper authorization. For a long time I just took it as axiomatic that it was true. Tonight I took the time to look it up and and it looks like this commonly accepted belief, like so many others, just isn't true.
Setting aside the need in this country to be convicted before actually being a criminal, not all people without authorization to be in the US have committed a crime. For example, it is not a crime to overstay one's visa, it's a civil matter. You can be deported, but being in the country for overstaying a visa but it is not a criminal act. Similarly, I doubt most dreamers who came as minors committed a criminal act as when their parents brought them here and evaded immigration at time of entry (illegal entry), the children likely don't have men's rae and the crime is only committed at the time of entry.
Being here without proper authorization isn't in and of itself a criminal act.
Capt Gregory Prickett is my reading correct?
Setting aside the need in this country to be convicted before actually being a criminal, not all people without authorization to be in the US have committed a crime. For example, it is not a crime to overstay one's visa, it's a civil matter. You can be deported, but being in the country for overstaying a visa but it is not a criminal act. Similarly, I doubt most dreamers who came as minors committed a criminal act as when their parents brought them here and evaded immigration at time of entry (illegal entry), the children likely don't have men's rae and the crime is only committed at the time of entry.
Being here without proper authorization isn't in and of itself a criminal act.
Capt Gregory Prickett is my reading correct?
Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence
Posted from blogs.findlaw.comPosted in these groups: 
Immigration
Crime
Immigration Crime
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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People who enter illegally are subject to fines and imprisonment, those who violate their non-immigrant visa status (commonly referred to as a visa overstays, although you can actually be here past your visa expiration) are deportable and then subject to a bar of re-entry which can vary depending on how long they overstayed their allowed time. Additionally, many times people get involved in fraudulent activities during their overstay resulting in additional charges. Technically, it is a civil infraction but still a violation of US law, therefore illegal.
The visa expiration is kind of a pet peeve thing of mine because like I said its not necessarily the expiration of your visa which is the issue, it is the time you are allowed to stay. You can be here on an expired visa and be legal, and you can be here on a valid visa and be out of status, or illegal, however you want to word it. Immigration law is complex and will make your head spin. There are about a bazillion scenarios out there and I am perplexed many times during a shift.
The visa expiration is kind of a pet peeve thing of mine because like I said its not necessarily the expiration of your visa which is the issue, it is the time you are allowed to stay. You can be here on an expired visa and be legal, and you can be here on a valid visa and be out of status, or illegal, however you want to word it. Immigration law is complex and will make your head spin. There are about a bazillion scenarios out there and I am perplexed many times during a shift.
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SPC Kevin Ford
SSG William Bowen Thanks for the information. I was surprised at the complexity and nuance involved.
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Like the question SPC Kevin Ford but I also like SFC George Smith response as well. I would reverse the question and ask- what would happen to an American in another country doing the same thing. Why are we made out to be the bad guy all the time when we are enforcing our Nation's laws? Either way stated/entered/presence- illegal is illegal.
SP5 Mark KuzinskiCPT Gabe SnellSGT John " Mac " McConnell COL Mikel J. Burroughs SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL LTC Stephen F. SFC Giovanni Bennett TSgt Joe C. SGT (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Stephen C. SFC (Join to see) MAJ David Vermillion MSG Andrew White ] MSgt John McGowan PO1 John Crafton SP5 Robert Ruck
SP5 Mark KuzinskiCPT Gabe SnellSGT John " Mac " McConnell COL Mikel J. Burroughs SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL LTC Stephen F. SFC Giovanni Bennett TSgt Joe C. SGT (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Stephen C. SFC (Join to see) MAJ David Vermillion MSG Andrew White ] MSgt John McGowan PO1 John Crafton SP5 Robert Ruck
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SPC Kevin Ford
Maj Marty Hogan - I'll try to explain what I'm looking at. There are two types of laws to be in violation of and associated cases, criminal and civil. In a criminal case you can be convicted of a crime and all the constitutional protections apply. Civil cases are different. People who lose in civil cases may have action taken against them, but they have not been convicted of a crime and are not criminals by virtue of loosing such a case. For example a parking ticket is a civil infraction. You have broken the law (or at least an ordinance) and may have to pay a fine if you loose the case but you have not committed a crime nor are you considered to have committed a criminal offense. In such a case you also wouldn't have a right to a jury, because it is not a crime nor a criminal case.
Another civil example of a civil action would be being in violation of the UCC (uniform commercial code). You could do something in violation (illegal) and be sued in civil court but you wouldn't have committed a crime.
So what it looks like the law is here not all illegal aliens (or whatever the term I should use that won't result on somehow getting people mad ;) ) are criminals. By the same token if you or I drive 64 in a 55 zone we have not committed a criminal act, even though what we did is illegal.
Another civil example of a civil action would be being in violation of the UCC (uniform commercial code). You could do something in violation (illegal) and be sued in civil court but you wouldn't have committed a crime.
So what it looks like the law is here not all illegal aliens (or whatever the term I should use that won't result on somehow getting people mad ;) ) are criminals. By the same token if you or I drive 64 in a 55 zone we have not committed a criminal act, even though what we did is illegal.
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MSgt John McGowan
The Marine that spend so much time in the Mexican jail broke the law by accident and I believe they treated it as a crime. We have the most open border of any big nation and the Mexican President spoke before Congress a year or so ago complaining about the border. The Congressional body gave him a standing ovation. Crime, even if you have a point Capt Marty Hogen.
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Thanks for posting an interesting discussion SPC Kevin Ford.
First I would to separate terms: illegal immigration is related to but distinct from illegal immigrant
1. those who do their best to smuggle illegal immigrants into this or any other nation are violating international nd national law. Therefore IMHO those who advance and profit from illegal immigration are violating the law.
2. those who enter this nation illegally are by definition illegal immigrants. Of course there are gradations within illegal immigrants from murderous executioners, rapists, child molesters and violent gang members at one extreme to children born to an illegal parent at the other end.
3. People who overstay their work or student visa are illegal aliens as well. However they range form foolish ones who forgot to check their status to terrorists at the other end.
Deportation needs teeth. Anybody this nation deported to country x, y or z needs to have a clearly defined agreement with those nations about deportation which holds that nation responsible for ensuring the deportee does not leave their nation to come back here illegally.
Thanks for mentioning me Maj Marty Hogan
FYI SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL LTC Stephen C. Capt Seid Waddell CPT Gabe Snell 1stSgt Eugene Harless CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT John " Mac " McConnell SGT Robert George SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright SP5 Robert Ruck CPT (Join to see) SCPO Morris Ramsey CPL Eric Escasio SPC Margaret Higgins
First I would to separate terms: illegal immigration is related to but distinct from illegal immigrant
1. those who do their best to smuggle illegal immigrants into this or any other nation are violating international nd national law. Therefore IMHO those who advance and profit from illegal immigration are violating the law.
2. those who enter this nation illegally are by definition illegal immigrants. Of course there are gradations within illegal immigrants from murderous executioners, rapists, child molesters and violent gang members at one extreme to children born to an illegal parent at the other end.
3. People who overstay their work or student visa are illegal aliens as well. However they range form foolish ones who forgot to check their status to terrorists at the other end.
Deportation needs teeth. Anybody this nation deported to country x, y or z needs to have a clearly defined agreement with those nations about deportation which holds that nation responsible for ensuring the deportee does not leave their nation to come back here illegally.
Thanks for mentioning me Maj Marty Hogan
FYI SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL LTC Stephen C. Capt Seid Waddell CPT Gabe Snell 1stSgt Eugene Harless CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT John " Mac " McConnell SGT Robert George SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright SP5 Robert Ruck CPT (Join to see) SCPO Morris Ramsey CPL Eric Escasio SPC Margaret Higgins
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SPC Kevin Ford
LTC Stephen F. Thanks Stephen. There was so much emphasis over the term illegal that (at least in my mind) it was getting conflated with criminal. There are indeed many cases of people who have entered the country illegally and in so doing committing a crime. However, in conversation the distinction that you make between illegal immigration and illegal immigrant seems to get lost.
With the majority of illegal immigrants now coming in from visa overstays I wanted to understand how these groups are treated differently by the law and how the law is likely to see "dreamers" who likely are not able to be successfully convicted with entering the country illegally (I would guess anyway), though of course they could still be deported. It looks like while all of these groups are here illegally, some have committed a crime by doing so and some have not.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216
(Please ignore the political bit in that article, I'm just interested in the idea that we have a high number of visa overstays now)
Edit to fix spelling of Stephen's name.
With the majority of illegal immigrants now coming in from visa overstays I wanted to understand how these groups are treated differently by the law and how the law is likely to see "dreamers" who likely are not able to be successfully convicted with entering the country illegally (I would guess anyway), though of course they could still be deported. It looks like while all of these groups are here illegally, some have committed a crime by doing so and some have not.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216
(Please ignore the political bit in that article, I'm just interested in the idea that we have a high number of visa overstays now)
Edit to fix spelling of Stephen's name.
Visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossings; trend likely to continue
A report done by the Center for Migration Studies shows another reason to question the necessity and value of building a wall along the southern border.
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SP5 Robert Ruck
Not withstanding the level of criminal or civil violation, illegal entry into this country calls for deportation. Therefore those people caught by immigration authorities for whatever reason should be deported. I'm not in favor of wasting money rounding up illegal immigrants who have caused no damage but rounding up criminal immigrants has my full support. Also, I believe in no documentation, no benefits. American citizens should not be taxed to pay for benefits of those here illegally. This however, in my opinion will never change as it is too ingrained in our everything for free society. It isn't free. Taxpayers pay for ever cent of it.
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LTC Stephen F.
Capt Gregory Prickett - as far as your first point, I modified the statement you referenced to "are violating national laws of this nation and/or other nation's laws" you.
In answer to the third point is that this nation provides funds and assistance to many nations. For those nations, reduced funding and diplomatic relation's may be sufficient to motivate them to clamp down on human trafficking and other illegal alien supporting activity.
As far as the second point, I think that is probably in a state of flux at this point.
In answer to the third point is that this nation provides funds and assistance to many nations. For those nations, reduced funding and diplomatic relation's may be sufficient to motivate them to clamp down on human trafficking and other illegal alien supporting activity.
As far as the second point, I think that is probably in a state of flux at this point.
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