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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Oct 17, 2014
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MSG Brad Sand
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Yes, when one of two things happens. They either kill so many of each other for to the point that there are so few people they do not care who owns what is not glowing or charred OR they find a common enemy that forces that redirects their animosity from each other.
The best way for the Arabs to beat the Jews is for them to leave them alone long enough for them to turn on themselves? The reason all these Muslim terror groups don’t kill more Westerners is because they keep turning on another Muslim group, Shia killing Sunni, Sunni killing Shia. Thank the Lord they hate each other more than they hate us?
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SSG John Bacon
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Muslims will never be at peace with any one. Israel wants Peace but will never get it as long as there are muslims. Islam is a religion of hate mongering, torture, violance against women, and Lies. This has been proven time and time again. Wake up! You can not have peace with a people who follow Islam.
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COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
9 y
SSG John Bacon - Staff; If you had said "MOST OF Christianity has moved on in the past several centuries." I wouldn't dispute it at all.

If you had said "SOME of Islam has not moved on in the past several centuries." I wouldn't dispute that at all.

However to roll ALL Muslims up in one bunch and pretend that they are all identical is about as sensible as saying that all Mennonites are Roman Catholics or all Anglicans are Mormons.
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SSG John Bacon
SSG John Bacon
9 y
COL Ted Mc - COL. I see it like this, If I have 10,000 Followers of Islam some are moderate and peaceful and some are going to kill me and my family, Islam Tells them to Lie, Cheat, Steal, and Murder to further Islam. Who am I to trust? Because they will ALL tell me they are Moderate and not here to kill me. I would mistrust them all, and I would be correct in doing so.

Sir, looking at your profile, I see that you have never deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, I can only assume that you are a Vietnam Combat Veteran from your profile. You are aware of people who tell you they are your friend and then try and blow you up the next day. that is how I see followers of Islam. No amount of persuasion is going to change my mind about them. So please Down vote this post and lets get on with our lives. Have a Happy New Year.

v/r

John A. Bacon
SSG, USA
Retired
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COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
9 y
SSG John Bacon - Staff; Just as a person would be "correct" in distrusting all "Muslims" because some "Muslims" would like to do you harm, so too would a person be "correct" in distrusting all "Christians" because some "Christians" would like to do them harm, and so too would a person be "correct" in distrusting all "Whites" because some "Whites" would like to do them harm, and so too would a person be "correct" in distrusting all "Blacks" because some "Blacks" would like to do them harm.

That is to say that NEITHER of them would be "correct".

One other thing, one should not always make inferences from data that is publicly available but which may not necessarily be all the data that is relevant.

PS - I never "down vote" posts from people who I conclude are sincere in their feelings and beliefs. I may think that they are "wrong" or even "silly", but they get the benefit of being honest in expressing their thoughts and that is what these forums should be about.
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SSG John Bacon
SSG John Bacon
9 y
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SFC And Battle Systems Manager
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Israel and Palestine will never have a lasting peace. This conflict goes back thousands of years. Basically Palestine won't be happy until Israel ceases to exist. As far as giving money to both sides I think it's a waste. We have a long standing relationship with Israel and should support them. Giving money to Palestine is just counter-productive and wasteful.
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MSG(P) Owner/Operator
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I have previously responded to this post however I feel remiss if I don't make a follow-up comment. Before I say it however I will preface it by saying I am not pro-Palestinian however I'm not overly Pro-Israeli either. The simple fact is that an indigenous population was displaced by a mainly Germanic/Slavic caucasoid people who practice a different religion by a separate third colonial world power without any thought to racial/ethnic religious considerations and everyone was just supposed to get along. The sheer amount of biases in the responses here somewhat sickens me. Make no mistake. Israel never WON its independence like the US did. It was GIVEN to them. We armed them, trained them and blindly supported them. Israel has committed it's fair share of atrocities that the rest of the world has turned a blind eye too. On the other hand, so called Palestinians haven't done themselves any favors either and are just as guilty of atrocity. BOTH parties would be happy with the annihilation of the other. It's not just the Palestinians. Most of the responses here seem blindly supporting Israel and in doing so point all the fingers in the other direction. Plainly put almost no one is looking at it from the other perspective. Christendom has gained what it never could by the crusades and will do anything it takes to make sure it remains in the control of the party more amicable to our interests. What has happened in Palestine is analogous to what the U.S. did to the native Americans. We rationalized and made every excuse for our actions and expanded until we drove them out or they acclimate to our culture. We all feel bad about what happened to the native peoples but yet we don't seem to find empathy for the Palestinians. If it were me I would use every means at my disposal to reclaim my country. Now, I wouldn't use women and children nor would I bomb targets clearly full of non combatants. However I also wouldn't blindly target civilian neighborhoods with missiles or drop bombs were there could be any chance of collateral damage. So all this is to say BOTH parties are just as guilty as the other except one actually has a legitimate reason to be angry. Especially when a great portion of the rest of the world lets biases rule over common sense. The question was asked will there ever be peace. The answer is no. This is stated by someone who has been and lived there both as a civilian and a soldier. I would just ask that if you are going to espouse historical referencing and are trying to legitimately make a concise and logical argument you should make all attempts not to invalidate your own argument by using verbiage and vocabulary that clearly pronounce your huge biases toward one side or the other. I'm sure this will cause me some thumbs down but if we are to ever have a stable Middle East we need to start seeing BOTH sides of the argument and realize that BOTH sides have a legitimate right to the are and that our obvious and oblivious support of one side has cause the U.S. to engender such hatred from the other.
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Sgt Tom Vaughn
Sgt Tom Vaughn
>1 y
SSG
With all respect you should go back to the days of Abraham and Moses Start there and move forward.
I'm still trying to find a country named palistine The Romans named the Jewish state palistine Just to let the Jews know who was in charge
Problems started by the Romans
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MSG(P) Owner/Operator
MSG(P) (Join to see)
>1 y
That's kind of funny since Moses never set foot in Israel and it wasn't called Israel then either and what is now Israel was then three and sometimes four different countries. It was populated by other people and was basically invaded by Abraham and his family and then again by Joshua many years later. Just because the bible says God gave it to Abraham doesn't mean the people living there didn't feel invaded. But I think we are focusing on the name of something rather than my main point and the fact that ethnically the people who now populate Israel are not the same people who populated it during biblical times. Their claim on it died way back when. The so called Palestinians have been there in some form continuously since Ancient Rome. So along comes the white western world in 1947 and arbitrarily sets up a country for a non indigenous people regardless of ethnic boundaries. Those there have a good reason to be pissed. My point is simply that we can't expect peace because the people who control it have a legitimate claim legally while those who have lived there for millennia have a legitimate point historically. Only our blind acceptance and support and personal biases keep us from accepting the truth. This issue is far more emotional and visceral than it is rational and logical. I find it funny we all fee bad for Native Americans but can't see the clear analogy with the Middle East. Finally, you looked on a map and couldn't find Palestine. Mmmm which map? Is there a universal one? How about the maps from the sixties that didn't show Lithiuania. Or the Ukraine? Georgia? Where is Poland on the maps from the late 1880s? Prussia? Transylvania? Yugoslavia? Czechoslovakia? I could go on. I appreciate your perspective but please recognize that it, as with mine and everyone else's, is colored by their own ethnic, cultural, personal, and societal biases.
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SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD
SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD
9 y
MSG(P) (Join to see) - Funny, bur there was no such thing as Palestine, until the emperor of Rome gave it the name, Palestina. These people are Arabs, but it would appear that their brothers don't want anything to do with them. Wonder why Jordan kicked them out of their region?
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MSG(P) Owner/Operator
MSG(P) (Join to see)
9 y
That's completely untrue. The area has been known as Palestine (or other derivatives of the same root) as far back as the time of Rhamses. Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula which Palestine is NOT a part of. The name doesn't mean anything of relevance anyway. The Jews who have settled there currently are not the ethnic Hebrews who resided in the area prior to the Roman conquest. The Palestinians (in one form or another) have continuously occupied the area for millennia despite whatever country had control at the time.
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LCDR William Johnston
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Will Israel and Palestine ever get along? Although it is simplistically constructed, and reflects significant political and philosophical naivete, the question is still worthy of being addressed. One of its faults is that it subsumes a common acceptance of what the phrase “get along” means. A second is that it implies that Israel and Palestine have some kind of equivalence: political, for example.

In the past, when addressing questions of this nature, I have found that the path to the understanding necessary to formulate an answer is more easily found when the question is approached by looking first at fundamentals. Setting aside, for the moment, the issue of what “get along” means, the question can be seen to imply (among other things) that the two named entities exist as competing States. This is not the case. As the term “State” is commonly defined, there is not now and, in all of recorded History, there never has been, a State named “Palestine.” Historically, States, as we know them, haven’t really existed as such for very long. (Currently, 160 of the 192 other UN member states (83%) currently recognize Israel as sovereign State.

Muslim apologists and other readers may take issue with the following source but, from the Jewish Virtual Library, we find that, though the definite origins of the word “Palestine” have been debated for years and are still not known for sure, the name is believed to be derived from the Egyptian and Hebrew word “peleshet” or “pelesheth.” Roughly translated it means “rolling” or “migratory,” The term was used to describe the inhabitants of the land to the northeast of Egypt - the Philistines. The Philistines were an Aegean people (more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguistically or historically with Arabia) who, in the 12th Century BC, conquered the Mediterranean coastal plain that is now Israel and Gaza.

According to Wikipedia, incident to the rise of the Assyrian Empire between the 10th century BC and late 7th century BC) the Philistine cities lost their independence to Assyria, and revolts in following years were all crushed. They were subsequently absorbed into the Babylonian and Persian empires. Thus, the Philistines disappeared as a distinct ethnic group by the late 5th century BC while Israel continued to exist long after that.

A derivative of the name “Palestine” first appears in Greek literature in the 5th Century BC, when the historian Herodotus called the area “Palaistine” .... In the 2nd century AD (132-135), the Romans crushed the revolt of Shimon Bar Kokhba, and regained Jerusalem and Judea. The Romans plowed under Jerusalem and renamed the area of Judea to “Syria Palaestina” in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel.

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term “Palestine” was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria; it was not an official designation. In fact, many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this time period referred to the area as “Southern Syria” and not as “Palestine.” After World War I, the name “Palestine” was applied to the territory that was placed under British Mandate; this area included not only present-day Israel but also present-day Jordan.

Leading up to Israel’s independence in 1948, it was common for the international press to label Jews, but not Arabs, living in the mandate as Palestinians. It was not until years after Israeli independence that the Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip began to call themselves “Palestinians.” In fact, Arabs cannot even correctly pronounce the word “Palestine” in their native tongue, referring to the area instead as “Filastin.” Worthy of note is the fact that the word “Palestine” or “Filastin” does not appear in the Koran. The term peleshet appears in the Jewish Tanakh no fewer than 250 times.

SO WHAT? you say; all that is Ancient History. What does it have to do with the situation as it exists today? To some people, not too much, perhaps, except that we need to remember that we all got where we are today from where we were yesterday and yesteryear. History is important, as are terms of reference.

But, with History out of the way, let’s proceed. Let’s just assume that the two entities named in the question exist. Let’s further assume that Israel is represented by its government. This then leaves us with the question of who (what organization) represents the non-Israeli entity. Two Islamic organizations contend for that status: HAMAS and FATAH.

“HAMAS” is an acronym of the Arabic phrase Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya, meaning “Islamic Resistance Movement”. There is also an Arabic word,“Hamas,” that means “devotion and zeal in the path of Allah.” So, this organization defines itself as an organization based on the tenets of Islam.

The full name of the movement, FATAH, is Arakat at-tarir al-waani al-Filastini, meaning the “Palestinian National Liberation Movement”. FATAH is a reverse acronym crafted from the Arabic. There is an Arabic word, “fath’ or “fatah,” meaning “opening”, “conquering”, or “victory”. The term is used in religious discourse to signify the Islamic expansion in the first centuries of Islamic history –as in “Fath al-Sham,” the “conquering of the Levant”. “Fatah” also has religious significance in that it is the name of the 48th sura (chapter) of the Koran. So, we see that this organization also defines itself as being based on the tenets of Islam.

Quoted in The Charter of Hamas, “The Imam and Martyr Hassan al-Banna”, founder of The Muslim Brotherhood, said, “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors.”

The Charter of Fatah, successor to the PLO, calls for “the liquidation of the Zionist presence.” “The Zionist presence” is a common Arabic euphemism for the State of Israel, so this clause in fact calls for the destruction of Israel, not just the end of Zionism.

Article Two of the Charter of Fatah says, “The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of the Muslim Brothers in Palestine. The Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a world organization, the largest Islamic Movement in the modern era. It is characterized by a profound understanding, by precise notions and by a complete comprehensiveness of all concepts of Islam in all domains of life: views and beliefs, politics and economics, education and society, jurisprudence and rule, indoctrination and teaching, the arts and publications, the hidden and the evident, and all the other domains of life.”

So, it doesn’t take an understanding of rocket science to see that both Hamas and Fatah, with minor differences in language, have taken similar vows, i.e.: to work toward the destruction of the State of Israel. In other words, they want Israel to be gone. This shared position puts into question whether the so-called “Palestinians” really want to form a State while the State of Israel still exists. In other words, does either contender really want what has been called, a “Two State Solution” to the “problem?” And, what about the original question? The answer to this question needs strategic context. How do two entities “get along” when one of them has vowed to destroy the other.

To oversimplify, just think of the two entities as being two motor vehicles, each with a driver or drivers, both restricted generally to sharing a particular geographical operating area. The two vehicles operate more or less in a sense that might be called “forced cooperation.” But, when one of the drivers deliberately tries to make his vehicle occupy the same space at the same time as the other vehicle, they both find that, like other things, it is not possible. Inevitable Result: collision!

The bottom line is that this is a religious issue more than it is a political or ideological issue. The inescapable fact is that destruction of Israel and the Jews is part and parcel of Islam. Add to this the fact that Islam recognizes no separation of “Church and State,” and the conclusion becomes quite clear. Ergo, the question “Will Israel and Palestine ever get along” is one that is detached from reality and becomes, for practical purposes, meaningless.
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SSgt Aerial Gunner/ Sma
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So I grew up in the 80's and I've never seen peace work between these two countries. I have seen parallels in terrorist type activities come from "Palestine" provoking Israel to retaliate. Israel has every right to protect there civilians against terrorist attacks just like we do. We freak out about September 11th but that same type of thing happens to Israel on the daily basis. If you think ISIS is of any concern then you would probably cower at the thought of how "Palestine" conducts themselves. Not only that but when the media is near they point fingers at Israel and call themselves, inaccurately, "martyrs". I think that country is preposterous and needs to be transplanted somewhere else. The Israeli people went from one ethnic cleansing attempt, Germany, to another, "Palestine ". Free gaze? You say? I say free
Israel.
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MSG(P) Owner/Operator
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It will never happen. You are talking about one indigenous people displaced by another who traces their ancestral roots to same place. There are longer standing conflicts, centuries old, over nothing more than a disputed pass through the Himilayas. This is an entire country where the two peoples are diametrically opposed to one another on a visceral, religious, and sociology-economic level. One progress prone and the other progress resistant. There will never be peace or consensus in Palestine.
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SSG Military Police
SSG (Join to see)
10 y
Seems i remember a Bible story about a man named Abraham that had two sons... one named Ishmael one named Isaac ... Brothers from different mothers that will never get along with each other .
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MSG Computer Operator 5
MSG (Join to see)
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Considering "Palestine" never existed but as a British Mandate it's hardly any ground to stand on.
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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"Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us." Golda Meir, former Prime Minister of Israel
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LTC Substitute Teacher
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Israel supports a 2 -state solution and definitely wants peace. However all attempts to deal with them are sabotaged by HAMAS. The leaders of the Palestinian Authority Arafat/Abbas don't could agree but it means nothing because HAMAS controls the PA. They know their enemy is not the Palestinian people but the terrorists that control them and brainwash and terrorize them. We have to distinguish the difference between the terrorists and the regular people. Finally, I'm obviously very gung-ho about supporting Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, but also realize that Israel knows the difference between Islam the religion, and Islamic extremism/terrorism. There are Muslim that sit on the Knesset, one on the Isreali supreme court and even some in the IDF! They comprise 20% of the Isreali citizenship. Even though Israel makes a special home for the Jewish people, Israel welcomes peace-loving people from all religions.. Jerusalem is holy to the three Abrahamic Religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.--all born out of Judaism and worship the same God and share some of the same prophets. We should not show prejudice to the Muslim people. (such as we did to Japanese during WWII) However, groups like ISIS, Hamas, Hezzbolah, Al-Quesda, are barbarians and have no sense of morals or regard for human life and Israel will and should do whatever they can do to defeat them. As long as they exist there will be no peace in Israel/Palestine or the Middle East as a whole!
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SGT Global Service Manager
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So long as parents teach their children to hate one another, the cycle will never end. Unless of course an armed coalition force occupies the region and forces parties from both sides to sit down and make concessions where peace is possible.

As I don't see either of these things happening, the death and destruction will continue and so will the funding of it by the US and other countries.
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