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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Mar 1, 2017
PO2 Gerry Tandberg
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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Edited >1 y ago
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RP Members and Connections - Great discussion and post on PTSD by PO2 Gerry Tandberg - Please pass this onto many of your connections here on RallyPoint.


CAPT Michael MoranPO3 Bob McCord CAPT John Fristachi SPC Kenneth OsborneSFC LaTonya Ramos, Human Resource(HRBP) | United States Army SFC (Retired)| Military Breastfeeding Advocate|Certified Just Culture ChampionPO3 Ron Hinton SPC Doug MessickSPC Scott MarcelleSPC Saundra Teater SSG Kevin Flike







https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-i-learned-about-post-traumatic-stress
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
>1 y
MSgt Victor Moss - It is a DISORDER, as in POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER. If you can't work because you have a mental disorder that is where you are
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PVT Mark Brown
PVT Mark Brown
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) - that
is where education takes over
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PVT Mark Brown
PVT Mark Brown
>1 y
SSG Edward Tilton -
it has become common to drop the "disorder" and refer to it as post traumatic STRESS. Note: stress is the operative word rather than disorder.
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
>1 y
A disorder is a grade of condition. A few years ago someone wanted to reclassify in the DSM, PTSD as a psychosis. That would cause it to be treated as a serious condition.No one with Post Traumatic Stress Psychosis could have a gun and wouldn't be in the Military, has been around since before the Army would acknowledge PTSD. Originally,The Army rated me for a ""Anxiety Disorder"" but a well regarded university called it Combat Related Stress Disorder. So stop dropping the Disorder
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SFC Volunteer For Veterans Help Organization
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I've been coping for ten years now. When I returned from the desert in January 2008, I had no knowledge of PTSD. No one informed me at my debriefing of what I was going to expect when returning. It wasn't until about two years after I returned that my wife threatened to leave me if I didn't get help. So I went to the VA and got some help, some tools, and more knowledge of what to expect. I still have triggers, memories, a nightmare from time to time, but I live with them. I have somewhat adapted. When I first returned, I met an old Vietnam Vet and talked to him about the memories, and if they ever stop. He told me that they don't, that you have to learn to accept what you did, and get on with your life. This, I have tried to do, and I try every day. I cope, and I avoid my triggers as much as possible. I believe I can help others with the same issues, and will do so if asked.
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SSgt Ron Dexter
SSgt Ron Dexter
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) Thank you for sharing. It is disheartening to read the Army did not properly make you aware of what could happen and what signs to look for. I hope you continue to learn new skills so you can live your best life possible! This I hope for you and all your combat Veteran brothers and sisters
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PO1 Bill O
PO1 Bill O
>1 y
The hardest part of this condition is that no one but you really knows what you feel, when you feel it, and how to avoid triggering its ugly memory! One day there will be a tested medical medicine or therapy to stop this disease. The problem is that man keeps searching, he does not include proven results because competition gets in the way, egos abound, and then the learnt concepts become overlooked because technology is passing them by. Man has already found the answer to this problem. Love each other, and stop warring!
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SFC Mike Terry
SFC Mike Terry
>1 y
I was in Vietnam and my PTSD didn't really kick in till I was in my early sixties. The VA has helped a lot. just knowing what is wrong with you helps. So hang in their Sgt Hawk, cause it never completely goes away.
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AN Christopher Crayne
AN Christopher Crayne
>1 y
I did the TMS in Nevada. Trans Magnetic Stimulation. It consists of about 48 min. + - ,each person differs, of magnetic pulses like the MRI into a specific area of the brain that depression stores/exists. They pulse that area and watch your hand. When all the fingers stop jerking and only the thumb moves, they found the spot. They laser measure the spot for accurate placement for future visits.You take about 3,000 pulses in that session time . Your eyes and teeth rattle a bit. Tenderness to the head where pulsed. And that's one down and twenty nine more to go,daily, thirty days in a row. The results for myself although temporary, (around 4 months) improved my overall mood and lessened the depression. I found it a worthwhile experience.
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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great post I have heard many other people say that PTSD is not a disease but in fact an injury, to the mind and psyche, I'm 50% through proper meds and counselling I can lead a some what normal life, but the fact is, its an injury just like my blown out knee, the injury still exists, the treatment is palliative at best
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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MSgt Victor Moss - I totally agree we are guinea pigs to these people that have not been in our boots, experienced our traumas but they are the ones treating us, fortunately my current psych doc who seems to be more in tune with PTS, has gotten me on the correct drugs and dosages which have improved my overall life, and yes knowing your triggers and dealing with them is also important, as well as how to avoid those triggers, its a combination of medication and education and over all excepting the fact you are not the same person you were
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CWO3 Retired
CWO3 (Join to see)
>1 y
MSG (Join to see) - I'm not a psychiatrist nor a professional medical doctor, but I know personally what I've been through during my time in the Marine Corps. I've had physical injuries on top of head injuries. I've been with Artillery, Infantry, Signal Intelligence, Amtracs, Tanks, and Division and MEB Staff Officer. But I will never forget the times that I held a seriously wounded Marine, whether it be peacetime combat ops or the real deal. I somehow knew when I returned from any ops how I would react to my family. Especially after being in combat and not wanting my family to know what I went through. As everyone here mentioned we all can see the physical injuries and wounds, but not the serious ones and injuries that will affect you for life. I've been very blessed to come back a survivor but sometimes I wish I hadn't. I have been in counseling therapy with my psychiatrist since my last employment. That was 7 years ago. I deal with my nightmares by eating right, getting the right hours of sleep, and especially exercising. But my thoughts and Nightmares haven't gone away, but like many Marines who have been diagnosed with this injury, disease, disorder whatever you want to call or name it, it will always be a part of my life and my wife and son's. I'm just happy that they understand me and my difficulties that comes with the silent injuries that we all take for granted. I know this Marine will never take life for granted ever again. I'd rather be the same Marine that I was prior to my very first incident during an op in South Korea. Thanks for sharing all your thoughts and opinions. I know I can get through this obstacle one day at a time and hopefully you all will too! I've been diagnosed with this disorder or injury since 1992 unofficial, but officially since 2010. I'm still doing what I do everyday surviving like we all do.

Semper Fidelis, To all who gave their best
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
>1 y
MSgt Terry Swift - very interesting, I've tried acupuncture, CBT, my meds well they work for now, my family bailed, could'nt deal with it anymore, even with my meds and CBT I still have the nightmares, but their effect on me are lessoned, i'm functional at work, I work out every day and eat well, I retired 3 years ago from the USAR, one last reminder to scratch from my thoughts, yes I miss it, but it needed to be done, as you said one day at a time that's all we can do
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CPO Bill Penrod
CPO Bill Penrod
7 y
I am one of the lucky one from Vietnam because I've manage to put my PTSD asleep most of the time. It's there just dormat for now.....
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What I Learned About Post Traumatic Stress
2LT Therapist
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As a future mental health therapist, my biggest pet peeve is how people don't think the brain can get injured like a bone or muscle. They think since they can't see a physical manifestation then it doesn't exist.
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2LT Therapist
2LT (Join to see)
>1 y
I'm working with a neurofeedback program at UTSA for anxiety and trauma. It's really helped a lot of people. And this clinic is free.
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2LT Therapist
2LT (Join to see)
>1 y
Tricare only covers biofeedback and only for 2 conditions that aren't psychosomatic.

Were you're treatments symptom or QEEG-led? I've seen QEEG is a lot better since it actually sees what sites are improperly firing. Also if you weren't seeing improvements after 10 sessions then the protocol should have been reevaluated. Was your therapist BCIA certified?
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CPT Scott Sharon
CPT Scott Sharon
>1 y
Cynthia Croft - Sorry, I have not been on RP for a while. I was surprised by all the great comments on PTSD and brain health while I was gone. Especially since for many years I did not believe PTSD existed. I am following the protocol recommended bt Dr. Amen's clinic and I am also doing neurofeedback. For me, neurofeedback is not nearly as powerful, however, they could see where my brain rewired itself after my stroke when I learned to walk again. Neither of these treatments have been approved bt the FDA so insurance usually does not cover it.
There is a lot of new work and discoveries being made in the area of brain science. Until recently no one realized most of the problems we have are caused by brain damage or that the physical brain damage could be repaired. Most people have no idea how powerful our brains are and we only use a small percentage of it. I think it is important to do what you can to repair the physical damage before taking drugs or counseling.
Many drugs are effective and necessary but too many are just to treat our symptoms instead of repairing the problem. Too many doctors rely on drugs only.
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SPC Kari Grove Wright
SPC Kari Grove Wright
7 y
The brain physically changes, due to the traumatizing event.
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CPT Scott Sharon
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I don't know how to respond to this other than by telling my story. I experienced a lot of horrible things while in Vietnam. I lost a lot of good friends and comrades there. As an example, of the 14 members of my OCS class that graduated 12 of us went to Vietnam. Only 3 came home alive. When I returned home all I wanted to do was to forget as much as I could.

My friends and family told me I was a different person when I returned home but I could not see that. I heard a lot about PDS but I did not believe it was real. I thought I could lock all the bad memories up in the back of my mind and forget them so that's what I tried to do. Members of the 19th Combat Engineer Battallion have a reunion every summer and many of them have tried to talk me into attending but I could never bring myself to doing that. Why would I want to bring back all those memories? I still have not attended any of the events.

Someone mentioned in one of the posts about this subject that certain movies would stir up bad memories and that's what happened to me when I saw the movie Apocalypse Now. That was so realistic I had nightmares for months after watching it.

I have talked very little about Vietnam since I returned but I recently wrote a book for my children about the first 30 years of my life. I included stories from my military career in the book and several stories about some of my Vietnam experiences. As you can understand I could not put much of the really bad stuff about Vietnam in the book. However, after writing and sharing the experiences in the book, after all these years it does not bother me anymore to talk about my Vietnam experiences.

I'm sure some of you medical members will understand how maybe just letting it out instead of holding it in really helps. It certainly made me feel a lot better.
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Kathlean Keesler
Kathlean Keesler
>1 y
THANK YOU. What a wonderful idea writing a book for your children & their children. Personally I find your truth "courageous". Respectfully Kate the civilian
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CPT Scott Sharon
CPT Scott Sharon
>1 y
Thanks Kate.
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SGM Bill Frazer
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Thank you Gerry for this and those who responded already. I served in 4 conflicts from 1983-1995, and we never discussed PTS, because to ask for help would cost your security clearance revocation, loss of duty position, and it was considered unmanly. We/I thought the nightmares, flashbacks, cold sweats, lack of good sleep were normal. It took me 10 yrs after retiring to seek help, it wasn't till the crying jags hit home. Diagnosis was PTSD, major depression- 50% rating. Some few years ago I let them put me on mild medication, when therapy had plateaued. I found it was just another wound, had several anyway, and like them it bugs you every day. Every day is a fight, win, lose or draw. My area has a Vet 2 Vet program where we have peer counseling which helps a lot- because we trust each other, regardless of age/conflict. After researching found it was common for 1st responders and some victims to have PTS- after all their events are often similar to ours. You have to get up every morning and say this is going to be a good day, and at each night, you have to say win, lose or draw, tomorrow is a chance to do better. I found it was a lot better for my girlfriend of 8 yrs to get guidance from one of my friends with PTS, because he could explain it calmly, and show it was not directed at her. Since the VA reported suicide problems in 1999- we have lost over 136,000 brother and sisters- that's more than all the KIA total from the Korean War to present. What is not included is that it appears at least 1 active duty member kills themselves every day as well. And these are just those reported as suicides, Lord knows how many there are actually. Need to push folks to seek help, and to remind the civilians world that's it something why have to fix
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg
PO2 Gerry Tandberg
>1 y
Bill, see my comments above to SFC Don Vance post.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
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Took me 13yrs to admit I had a problem and then it wasn't me who did. The VA "ordered" me to go to a shrink. Glad they did. Worst thing, my brother's daughter is a shrink. After I had gone, I was telling her and she said she knew a long time ago.
We just have to get over the big boy syndrome and get some help. The worst thing is those who want to ride the wagon and make it seem taboo for the rest of us. Also when the public thinks just because we are vets we are all going to go "postal" and loose our marbles. Doc said I was ok, maybe just short one marble or so, but normal.
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PO1 Bill O
PO1 Bill O
>1 y
I've been seen, observed, and evaluated! The VA is too overloaded to treat anyone positively! They rush you through and check off their weekly #'s reports, not the cured #'s.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
>1 y
PO1 Bill O - Guess I am lucky to be on the Foreign Medical Program in Europe.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
>1 y
SP5 Christine Conley - You got that right Chief. I think many of our marble bags have been pawed through.
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SFC Don Vance
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7
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Excellent article! I self medicated for 15 years. Not until I admitted that I had PTSD and had become an alcoholic was I able to get the help that I needed. There are many things that I've never told my wife about and never will, she doesn't need to know the details. Both of our children are combat veterans and we've discussed some things that happened and have been able to help each other on occasion. I have found that the greatest help in dealing with it has come from a relationship with God and mentoring and assisting other veterans that are having issues.
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg
PO2 Gerry Tandberg
>1 y
Thanks for your comments Don. The group that I support as a staff photographer is a faith-base organization and all staff on board are Veterans and Christians. We DO NOT preach. Instead, we give them the opportunity to talk in a safe environment where we understand much of what they have experienced. Sometimes it takes several camp experiences to establish a trust relationship with both staff and their own peers. The most encouraging aspect is these Vets have picked up the ball and do much of the heavy lifting now; i.e., organizing events, contacting other vets, respond to crisis situations among themselves, and yes, understand that there is a spiritual side to recovery that the VA seldom, if ever offers for consideraton.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
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The Biggest problem I am finding is that the VA is totally useless, if you do not meet their classification of what they feel PTSD is. They have 5 conditions and if you do not meet 4 of the 5, they will not identify you as having PTSD. Mt PTDS started while in the Navy during Vietnam and after, the crash of Aircraft on the flight deck, pulling a body out of the water that floated out from under a camel in Hong Kong harbor and then having it explode when its buoyancy is lost when we lifted it up in a stokes stretcher. Then after discharge going into the Fire Service and pulling burned bodies out of houses, retrieving bodies, body parts and pieces from crashed aircraft. for 30+ years. The funny thing is I took classes on how to spot Post Traumatic Stress in my Fire Fighters, but I never was able to see it in myself. As a Firefighter you learned how to burn stress by using "black humor" at the station. That plus a close brotherhood of Firefighters helped. A close personal relationship with GOD helped me to keep my sanity. I taught myself how to manifest pain into laughter until one day when our Junior Senator hosted a Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans get together. I went and as part of the many exhibits I came face to face with my land mine. The one thing that triggered my release. The next thing I knew I was against the wall curled into a ball crying my eyes out. It all came to the surface. Well before I left I conquered that land mine. I
I went to my Dr. at the VA and had her refer me to the PTSD Clinic. I spoke to a Social Worker, she asked me a bunch of questions and I found out that I only had 2 maybe 3 of the 5 conditions that the VA looks for to Classify PTSD. Because I do not beat my wife and children, because I am not severely Depressed, because I can get up every day and go to work, because I have learned how to handle the pain in a non-destructive way, because nI have never even contemplated chewing on the business end of a M1911 The VA says I do not have PTDS. The shrinks at my Work says they are Nuts. PTSD is not a game show, you do not have to get a perfect score to win. I am about to start my 3rd appeal.

WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO IS THIS: PO2 Gerry Tandberg is dead on. No one is immune from Post Traumatic Stress. It can happen to ANYONE! be ready to ask for help. There is no shame in it. Now if we can just get it from the VA
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
>1 y
PO2 Gerry Tandberg - Gerry, My problems now are just getting the VA to acknoledge it. I want it in my record. That is all. I do not want any money, or increase in my benefits or disability at this time. Because it has been so long, I learned to handle my own pain. My GOD, and Laughter. The American Legion and their VA Counselors have helped me greatly so far. I will look for those books you mentioned. Thanks.
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Kathlean Keesler
Kathlean Keesler
>1 y
1972 I met a vets who said when he closed his eyes he saw his buddies drowning in blood. He said the only way he found to sleep was to take pills, get drunk and have a good cry. He gained a bunch of weight drinking and becoming a recluse. That was the 1st experience I had with a post traumatic Vietnam vet. I had a friend who was in WWII he said SHELL SHOCK hit him every time he heard a loud bang back firing car. One size fits all clinical studies is frustrating. Talking about the trauma set in is difficult for many people. My dad blew his head clean off with a double barrel deer gun 1975 I didn't know understand the depth of depression until then. If maybe my dad had God he'd have had some help ???
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
>1 y
Kathlean Keesler - I am deeply saddened at your loss Kathlean, We all handle stress differently, I admit that even though I have known GOD all my life, I was not as close to him as I am now, and I did not walk daily with Jesus as I do now. I cannot tell you how many barrels of pine chips I made out of downed trees, back before I knew what it was. I thank the Lord he kept me away from alcohol, I just wish I could have stayed away from food too.
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Kathlean Keesler
Kathlean Keesler
>1 y
Comfort foods - I'M an addict ! Howver I am able to touch my toes - give myself a big strong hug everyday. I think hugging myself is this GOD embrace - don't give up on yourself - MASHED and baked potatoes lots of butter and I like bacon with avocado as a topping then a spoon full of sour cream sprinkled with chives.... Guilt free
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LTC Stephen F.
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Edited >1 y ago
Thanks for sharing what you learned about Post Traumatic Stress PO2 Gerry Tandberg. Hopefully what you shared will benefit many others.
Thanks for alerting me COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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