Posted on Jul 1, 2015
Would it be a good idea to combine the Navy and the Coast Guard? Why or why not?
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From a outsider's prospective, the navy and coast guard appear similar enough to consider combining the two. There isn't an agenda with this question. I was wondering what the pros and cons would be doing this. Admittedly, I don't significant enough knowledge of either organization to know. I'm curious what the people involved in these organizations think.
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Absolutely not. There are key differences in both missions and legal issues when looking at both branches. The Navy for instance is DOD and bound by PC Act, which prevents certain actions from being taken both CONUS and OCONUS in regards to law enforcement and engagement.
CG meanwhile is able to engage in domestic and international law enforcement missions that would be impossible for the DOD due to legal restrictions.
Outside of legal issues alone a massive restructuring and force shaping would be required to incorporate the CG's domestic non-combat missions into that of the Navy.
CG meanwhile is able to engage in domestic and international law enforcement missions that would be impossible for the DOD due to legal restrictions.
Outside of legal issues alone a massive restructuring and force shaping would be required to incorporate the CG's domestic non-combat missions into that of the Navy.
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LT (Join to see)
You are absolutely correct. The law does not directly apply to naval forces but the internal regulations you mention make it essentially so that the spirit of the law is still followed. Per Wikipedia, "While the Act does not explicitly mention the naval services, specifically the Navy and the Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the Act force with respect to those services as well. "
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1SG Michael Blount
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - I believe the PC Act applies to the military writ large, and is codified in Title 10.
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
Right you are LT Beckham, too many people in our own Government are ignorant of the differences between the Operations of both the Services. Not the least of which are the plethora of Legalities involved.
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Sgt Wayne Wood
The Act only specifically applies to the United States Army and, as amended in 1956, the United States Air Force. While the Act does not explicitly mention the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the Act force with respect to those services as well. The Act does not apply to the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act either, primarily because although the Coast Guard is an armed service, it also has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.
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The issue is that they "appear" similar at first glance, much like the Marines and Army "appear" similar at first glance, but in actuality they are very different.
Although the USCG and the Navy both use Naval Vessels, the size of the ships are very different as is the logistical support. The USCG relies on port based logistical support whereas the Navy is Expeditionary (anywhere in the world). The USCG also has a large LEO function which the USN has internal regulation prohibiting them from performing (replicating the Posse comitatus act).
As for the USMC, we are a NOT a "ground force." We are an Littoral Force, which is capable of operating as a Ground Force (like the Army) in support of the USN or the DoD at large.
Although, at first blush, it seems like it would save money, it would end up costing more. Each service is highly specialized for for a reason, which allows for greater focus and smaller overall force structure.
It is the same reason we no longer have an Army Air Corps (and still have a Naval Air Component as well as Marine Air).
Although the USCG and the Navy both use Naval Vessels, the size of the ships are very different as is the logistical support. The USCG relies on port based logistical support whereas the Navy is Expeditionary (anywhere in the world). The USCG also has a large LEO function which the USN has internal regulation prohibiting them from performing (replicating the Posse comitatus act).
As for the USMC, we are a NOT a "ground force." We are an Littoral Force, which is capable of operating as a Ground Force (like the Army) in support of the USN or the DoD at large.
Although, at first blush, it seems like it would save money, it would end up costing more. Each service is highly specialized for for a reason, which allows for greater focus and smaller overall force structure.
It is the same reason we no longer have an Army Air Corps (and still have a Naval Air Component as well as Marine Air).
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Not really the same duties. The Coast Guard is primarily a law enforcement agency. The Navy is a military naval force. Although they bear some resemblance and the Coast Guard can step up to function as a military naval force, the Navy would require a lot of training and experience to function effectively as a police force.
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SCPO (Join to see)
SCPO (Join to see) Unfortunately my comment was only half in jest. My command trains the CG ships out here in Pearl. Let's just say they don't put to much effort into the naval warfare part.
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SCPO Carl Wayne Boss
SCPO (Join to see) -
The scope of many of the missions the SCPO mentions are significant. Under Federal Statute, the U. S. Coast Guard already automatically falls under DOD/Dept. of the Navy command during time of "Declared" War.
There are many more differences between the Navy & the U.S. Coast Guard than mentioned to Capt. Durish, by SCPO Bowerman & much more detail to all the areas that the SCPO mentions. That's one of the problems that the U.S. Coast Guard has always had, there is a total lack of understanding as to the totality of the Coast Guard's Missions & especially by the members of Congress that are supposed to keep the Organization adequately manned & funded.
As for the Navy carrying out U.S. Coast Guard Missions, I'm afraid they'd be operating largely in the dark in many areas, as they are by & large ignorant of what the U.S. Coast Guard does. Many people believe the majority of the Coast Guard's day to day operations is Search & Rescue but that is as SCPO Bowerman stated earlier, not only erroneous, but a "gross" mischaracterization.
Now that's not to say that there aren't some operations where there maybe some economies of scale achieved by cross training certain ratings in both Services, because I believe that may be possible, as well as designing both services Ships, Boats, Aircraft & other equipment for inter-operability to a greater extent then they already are.
But their Major Missions are so different, I think putting them both under the same management would ruin both Services. The Navy's Officer Corps & Senior Non-Coms have totally different mind & skill sets than does the Coast Guard's.
I know this largely because I was born to, & raised by a Navy Senior NCO & when I came of age, I chose to enlist in the U. S. Coast Guard during Vietnam, where I worked my way up the ranks to being an SCPO myself, to further my skills as a Firefighter/EMT & a Small Boatman, a choice I have never regretted. I felt in doing so I could be of greater service to my seagoing Brothers & Sisters in the Navy & to the Fire Service where I planned to return after leaving Active Duty.
Chief Turcotte may be right to some extent, but the amount of training needed to bring Navy personnel up to speed to do Coast Guard Missions would be far more significant than Vice-versa, training Coast Guard Personnel to perform Navy Missions. We already know how to operate from floating platforms and how to use our weaponry to fight to protect our Homeland and Ourselves against Aggressors.
I think a Navy Boat Crew, would be hard pressed to service a Buoy or Lighthouse, or place a Buoy that had just been overhauled & repainted back on station properly, I'm not sure they could function very well as Rescue Swimmers as that is not something they get a lot of practice at, unlike most crew members aboard Coast Guard Cutters, Small Boat or Helo Crews.
The scope of many of the missions the SCPO mentions are significant. Under Federal Statute, the U. S. Coast Guard already automatically falls under DOD/Dept. of the Navy command during time of "Declared" War.
There are many more differences between the Navy & the U.S. Coast Guard than mentioned to Capt. Durish, by SCPO Bowerman & much more detail to all the areas that the SCPO mentions. That's one of the problems that the U.S. Coast Guard has always had, there is a total lack of understanding as to the totality of the Coast Guard's Missions & especially by the members of Congress that are supposed to keep the Organization adequately manned & funded.
As for the Navy carrying out U.S. Coast Guard Missions, I'm afraid they'd be operating largely in the dark in many areas, as they are by & large ignorant of what the U.S. Coast Guard does. Many people believe the majority of the Coast Guard's day to day operations is Search & Rescue but that is as SCPO Bowerman stated earlier, not only erroneous, but a "gross" mischaracterization.
Now that's not to say that there aren't some operations where there maybe some economies of scale achieved by cross training certain ratings in both Services, because I believe that may be possible, as well as designing both services Ships, Boats, Aircraft & other equipment for inter-operability to a greater extent then they already are.
But their Major Missions are so different, I think putting them both under the same management would ruin both Services. The Navy's Officer Corps & Senior Non-Coms have totally different mind & skill sets than does the Coast Guard's.
I know this largely because I was born to, & raised by a Navy Senior NCO & when I came of age, I chose to enlist in the U. S. Coast Guard during Vietnam, where I worked my way up the ranks to being an SCPO myself, to further my skills as a Firefighter/EMT & a Small Boatman, a choice I have never regretted. I felt in doing so I could be of greater service to my seagoing Brothers & Sisters in the Navy & to the Fire Service where I planned to return after leaving Active Duty.
Chief Turcotte may be right to some extent, but the amount of training needed to bring Navy personnel up to speed to do Coast Guard Missions would be far more significant than Vice-versa, training Coast Guard Personnel to perform Navy Missions. We already know how to operate from floating platforms and how to use our weaponry to fight to protect our Homeland and Ourselves against Aggressors.
I think a Navy Boat Crew, would be hard pressed to service a Buoy or Lighthouse, or place a Buoy that had just been overhauled & repainted back on station properly, I'm not sure they could function very well as Rescue Swimmers as that is not something they get a lot of practice at, unlike most crew members aboard Coast Guard Cutters, Small Boat or Helo Crews.
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SCPO (Join to see)
Excellent editorial, Senior Chief. Thank you. Here's another reason the Navy (in which I also served, my turn as a Quartermaster on destroyers and a carrier) would have a difficult time: our Barque, CGC EAGLE. I'm not sure they'd believe the crew members each have their own private sea cabins, or that they enjoy port calls every Friday night!!! We have it so rough, huh???
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