Posted on Dec 12, 2015
If Donald Trump is elected President, would it be more honorable to resign from service or to serve under his "leadership"?
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Elections
Donald Trump
Elections Donald Trump
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 147
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I would stay in. I served under Obama and he is tied for the worst President ever with Jimmy Carter. I mean under Obama's "Leadership" he has torn this country apart from lack of leadership. Couldn't be any worse than that.
Since you decided to get your digs in I thought I would reciprocate.
Since you decided to get your digs in I thought I would reciprocate.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
It's all good. You "dig" on a sitting President, I "dig" on a candidate that most people know has no chance of winning... I have no hard feelings.
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SGT William Howell
MAJ Bryan Zeski All I can say is I hope he does not win the Republican ticket. If he were to win the Presidency I may have to change my opinion of "Worst President Ever".
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MAJ Bryan Zeski You serve the Constitution, Major, and in the performance of that duty, the office of the POTUS. Not the man. But let me point this out: if everyone who doesn't like Trump left the military, then all there would be left is Trump supporters. Who would voice alternate opinions within the ranks?
I sincerely hope this was a hypothetical, and that you're not considering it. The Army needs men like you, no matter who's (temporarily) sitting in that office.
I sincerely hope this was a hypothetical, and that you're not considering it. The Army needs men like you, no matter who's (temporarily) sitting in that office.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
SN Greg Wright It was absolutely a rhetorical question - just to get people thinking about the line between honorable service and at what point it would no longer be honorable.
I like to stir the pot, occasionally. It seems to have worked here for sure!
I like to stir the pot, occasionally. It seems to have worked here for sure!
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SN Greg Wright
MAJ Bryan Zeski - I'm glad. I think, based on (of course) my very limited interaction with you, that you're a good leader, and one we shouldn't lose just because of who's sitting in the Oval.
Nothing wrong with stirring the pot. Especially when you do it as tactfully as you did.
As for when it would become dishonorable to serve under a person, well, I suppose to me, that would be when he starts issuing illegal orders.
One thing to remember, in the unlikely event Trump does win (I mean, come on, really? No way.) is that no president operates in a vacuum. He's going to have all kinds of people telling him how stupid xxxx action is. And if he ignores them too many times, I imagine he'll wind up impeached, because he'd've done something stupid. Which is NOT hard to imagine lol.
Nothing wrong with stirring the pot. Especially when you do it as tactfully as you did.
As for when it would become dishonorable to serve under a person, well, I suppose to me, that would be when he starts issuing illegal orders.
One thing to remember, in the unlikely event Trump does win (I mean, come on, really? No way.) is that no president operates in a vacuum. He's going to have all kinds of people telling him how stupid xxxx action is. And if he ignores them too many times, I imagine he'll wind up impeached, because he'd've done something stupid. Which is NOT hard to imagine lol.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
SN Greg Wright - I don't really think that Trump has a chance. He's alienated 100% of the left and at least 25% of the right. If he runs in any capacity, he gives the election to the Dems.
At this point, his behavior seems to indicate that THAT might be his intention all along. He's supported Dems in the past. He knows that if he runs and can split the Republican vote by stripping away the far-right extremist element, the Dems win in a landslide. What's in it for him? I don't know, but I doubt he's doing it for "America."
At this point, his behavior seems to indicate that THAT might be his intention all along. He's supported Dems in the past. He knows that if he runs and can split the Republican vote by stripping away the far-right extremist element, the Dems win in a landslide. What's in it for him? I don't know, but I doubt he's doing it for "America."
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This I do know beyond any shadow of a doubt: Trump either will be the Republican candidate, or the RNC brokers the convention, at which time Trump goes Independent. At that moment, The Democrat is absolutely guaranteed to win. Would you work for her or resign, MAJ Bryan Zeski???
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
The question was really more rhetorical, thus the reason I didn't say, "should *I*" do this or that. It was more a question of whether its better to willingly serve under a toxic leader, or to leave service.
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CW4 (Join to see)
MAJ Bryan Zeski - I like how you keep coping and pasting the same response to everyone who is calling you out for being an idiot. You really need to Google the term "TROLL" and then really reflect and internalize what that definition means to you and decide if that is the kind of person you want to be. The Army is currently culling out a lot of non-performing O-4s. You could really help the Army by resigning when President Trump takes office.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
CW4 (Join to see) - My cut and paste is due entirely to the fact that people misunderstood my question. I never said I was considering it. And, given that RP has been generally a respectful page, there hasn't been much name calling at all - like "idiot" - but your addition is certainly appreciated.
I suppose if I were a non-performing O-4, the Army would have culled me already - so, by the process of elimination, I must still be performing my job adequately. However, I will be sure to let HRC know of your recommendation and will take your advice into consideration regardless of who is elected President.
I suppose if I were a non-performing O-4, the Army would have culled me already - so, by the process of elimination, I must still be performing my job adequately. However, I will be sure to let HRC know of your recommendation and will take your advice into consideration regardless of who is elected President.
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SFC Joseph McCausland
MAJ Bryan Zeski - Okay Major, the question is...Would it be honorable to stay in or resign your commission if Donald Trump becomes President of the United States and the Commander-In-Chief of its Armed Forces and the answer is a resounding NO!... To resigning your commission.
If you wear your uniform proudly and you believe in what it representatives, then it should not matter who Commands our Forces.
If the only reason for resigning your commission would be one of personal ideology; in other words.. "I don't like the guy ( Trump) and what he stands for".. or words to that affect, then I would think long and hard on giving up what you worked so hard to achieve.
As mentioned by a previous writer, there are many serving under our current Commander-In-Chief who are not on board with most of the policies he has adopted and actions he and the commanders under him have taken, yet they "solider" on.
When ones "personal ideology" trumps (no pun intended.. well maybe) Duty, Honor, Country, then such a decision should not be made without a great deal of introspection.
Best of Luck Sir,
If you wear your uniform proudly and you believe in what it representatives, then it should not matter who Commands our Forces.
If the only reason for resigning your commission would be one of personal ideology; in other words.. "I don't like the guy ( Trump) and what he stands for".. or words to that affect, then I would think long and hard on giving up what you worked so hard to achieve.
As mentioned by a previous writer, there are many serving under our current Commander-In-Chief who are not on board with most of the policies he has adopted and actions he and the commanders under him have taken, yet they "solider" on.
When ones "personal ideology" trumps (no pun intended.. well maybe) Duty, Honor, Country, then such a decision should not be made without a great deal of introspection.
Best of Luck Sir,
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It is said people get the government they deserve.
If the people vote in Trump they deserve very bad government indeed.
Walt
If the people vote in Trump they deserve very bad government indeed.
Walt
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SSG Gerhard S.
Capt Walter Miller -
What truly is amazing, regarding the whole Deficit reduction issue is how the deficit has come down, while our DEBT has risen. Only in government can revenues increase, spending continue to increase (while being celebrated for not increasing as fast as it did in in the recent past (Deficit reduction is STILL an increase)) and then see a geometric rise in the National debt. Any business working under such a model would be out of business in 1 quarter, likely, it's executive officers would end up in jail as well. Regards
What truly is amazing, regarding the whole Deficit reduction issue is how the deficit has come down, while our DEBT has risen. Only in government can revenues increase, spending continue to increase (while being celebrated for not increasing as fast as it did in in the recent past (Deficit reduction is STILL an increase)) and then see a geometric rise in the National debt. Any business working under such a model would be out of business in 1 quarter, likely, it's executive officers would end up in jail as well. Regards
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Capt Walter Miller
SSG Gerhard S. - The ACA provides –government- subsidized healthcare to every American if they need it. That is a new thing.
Walt
Walt
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SSG Gerhard S.
Capt Walter Miller -
Just a little review here sir. Your list of accomplishments states:
" ...he worked for and got passed healthcare for every American."
but you now write:
"The ACA provides –government- subsidized healthcare to every American if they need it. That is a new thing."
First of all, those two phrases say two different things, in both words, and meaning. Secondly, with almost 12% of the American People STILL without insurance, both statements are either simply incorrect, or, more generously, don't play out in reality.
One of the problems I'm noticing with your statements is a misunderstanding, or a lack of regard for the differences between these two phrases.
"health care".... That's what you get in the Doctor's office, urgent care, or hospital.
"health insurance" ... That's the mechanism by which "health care" costs are paid.
Just an observation here. It appears you are using these two terms interchangeably, when they clearly are not. It is a common error, but it is also a political tactic used by some to confuse the issue. I'm not suggesting you're using one or the other .
As I stated previously, we already had "health care" available to every American before the ACA. I would also add that though there likely ARE more people "insured" (many States expanded their Medicaid programs, which fits the definition of a benefit, rather than "insurance".) than before the ACA. Furthermore, many of the middle class who WERE able to pay for their own health insurance before the ACA came about, are NOT able to pay for Insurance now. Many have lost their insurance, due to ACA mandates, and are now paying fines instead. A friend of mine, a Veteran, was paying about $350 per month for the health insurance he wanted for himself and his family. Clearly not a Cadillac plan, but a plan that covered their needs. The ACA though mandates a more comprehensive plan that would have cost this Veteran approx $1300 per month, which he simply couldn't afford. So, now, he and his family do not have insurance, and because of that, he just received his notice from the IRS levying a fine of $2400.00 for not having Insurance.
Though, anecdotal, it's hard to argue that this, middle class Veteran, with a wife and two children are better off with the ACA in place. Regards.
Just a little review here sir. Your list of accomplishments states:
" ...he worked for and got passed healthcare for every American."
but you now write:
"The ACA provides –government- subsidized healthcare to every American if they need it. That is a new thing."
First of all, those two phrases say two different things, in both words, and meaning. Secondly, with almost 12% of the American People STILL without insurance, both statements are either simply incorrect, or, more generously, don't play out in reality.
One of the problems I'm noticing with your statements is a misunderstanding, or a lack of regard for the differences between these two phrases.
"health care".... That's what you get in the Doctor's office, urgent care, or hospital.
"health insurance" ... That's the mechanism by which "health care" costs are paid.
Just an observation here. It appears you are using these two terms interchangeably, when they clearly are not. It is a common error, but it is also a political tactic used by some to confuse the issue. I'm not suggesting you're using one or the other .
As I stated previously, we already had "health care" available to every American before the ACA. I would also add that though there likely ARE more people "insured" (many States expanded their Medicaid programs, which fits the definition of a benefit, rather than "insurance".) than before the ACA. Furthermore, many of the middle class who WERE able to pay for their own health insurance before the ACA came about, are NOT able to pay for Insurance now. Many have lost their insurance, due to ACA mandates, and are now paying fines instead. A friend of mine, a Veteran, was paying about $350 per month for the health insurance he wanted for himself and his family. Clearly not a Cadillac plan, but a plan that covered their needs. The ACA though mandates a more comprehensive plan that would have cost this Veteran approx $1300 per month, which he simply couldn't afford. So, now, he and his family do not have insurance, and because of that, he just received his notice from the IRS levying a fine of $2400.00 for not having Insurance.
Though, anecdotal, it's hard to argue that this, middle class Veteran, with a wife and two children are better off with the ACA in place. Regards.
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SSG Gerhard S.
One more thing Sir... I know I'm cherry picking from your list here, but this particular issue irks me when I see it. When you laud President Obama for low gas prices, does he also get credit/blame for the record high $4.00 +/ gallon we were paying for gasoline last year? Just wondering.
A note on this. Giving a President, (any President) credit for the price of gasoline, high, or low, is nonsense. A President CAN have a nominal influence on oil prices through trade policies, or through production policies, but anything a President does, can be undone by the rest of the global oil market.
A note on this. Giving a President, (any President) credit for the price of gasoline, high, or low, is nonsense. A President CAN have a nominal influence on oil prices through trade policies, or through production policies, but anything a President does, can be undone by the rest of the global oil market.
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I initially down voted you, but thought better of it. I feel that if you have the option to resign then by all means do so. MAJ Bryan Zeski many Soldiers have endured a brutal disagreement with the current and the previous POTUS and served professionally. Yet, if you feel you cannot serve professionally it would be better for the Army and the nation as a whole if you recognized this and left your spot for someone who is willing to be professional.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
I understand what you are saying, but I think you're missing the point. It's not about whether a person chooses to serve professionally, it's about when service is no longer honorable.
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SSG Trevor S.
MAJ Bryan Zeski the ability to keep your opinions from effecting those around you is part of honor *in the profession of arms. Take into account the case of General McChrystal. If you cannot keep your emotions and reactions to your boss from effecting your command and subordinates then it would be honorable to resign, as I said. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-runaway-general-20100622
Honesty is also part of honor.
*edit for clarity
Honesty is also part of honor.
*edit for clarity
The Rolling Stone profile of Stanley McChrystal that changed history
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When I was 26, I enlisted under Bush, a president whose policies I deeply disagreed with. I did it because I wanted to serve and because I wanted to be a part of the process, not just a bystander. After Obama took office I saw some sickening public displays of disrespect from my fellow service members toward their CIC, so you should feel no shame for airing your views about Trump. However as a leader, it's your responsibility to pass on and carry out all lawful orders handed down to you. Everyone has their own limits, just as everyone has their own reasons for serving. If the thought of serving under an individual whom you do not respect is enough for you to get out, that's disappointing to me, but it's your choice. I will not answer your poll because it's not my decision to make.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
I feel no shame. I do feel disgust for the behavior and mentality of many of my fellow servicemembers who cry about the mere suggestion I made but have no qualms about blatant disrespect for a sitting President. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.
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If you were gonna get out because of a man, You were in for the wrong reason and were looking for a reason to get out so you can place blame instead of accept responsibility and the Military is probably better off without you!.
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I don't see how who the POTUS is should make that choice for you. I know a lot of people that do not like President Obama, but they are still serving. I know a lot of people that did not like President Bush but they still served. What is in your heart and possibly your family should be the only things that contribute to your choice to stay in the Military or end your service.
With all of that being said I would like to point out one last thing.
As i tell all of my soldiers when I hear them speaking about him.
No matter if your feelings toward him are good, bad, or indifferent President Obama is still the President of the United States. Your Commander and Chief. He should be addressed as such. I don't go around calling my COL by his last name and would get reamed if I did. I don't go around calling my 1SG or Commander by their last name and would get reamed if I did. SO therefor we should not disrespect the office of the President of these United States by doing the exact opposite of that which we have been taught and know to be right.
With all of that being said I would like to point out one last thing.
As i tell all of my soldiers when I hear them speaking about him.
No matter if your feelings toward him are good, bad, or indifferent President Obama is still the President of the United States. Your Commander and Chief. He should be addressed as such. I don't go around calling my COL by his last name and would get reamed if I did. I don't go around calling my 1SG or Commander by their last name and would get reamed if I did. SO therefor we should not disrespect the office of the President of these United States by doing the exact opposite of that which we have been taught and know to be right.
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The underlying question you must answer is much different than the question posed, and that question is: "Why do you serve?" If you serve because you believe the Constitution is the founding document that deserves protection, then the answer to the Trump question is you continue to serve. If the American people elect Trump through our democratic election process, albeit flawed, then you are serving for the honor of upholding our constitutional tradition. If you would rather resign, then what does that say about your oath? You do know the greatest sacrifice we make when we serve is to protect the rights of those we disagree with, whether it's Trump or Clinton. Once you get that concept, the choice about serving is easy. You're not serving the "man in office," you're serving the people and protecting their constitutional rights.
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