Posted on May 4, 2016
Do you believe that these West Point first classman are violating the UCMJ by making a political statement while in uniform?
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DOD directive 1344.10 states:
-A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).)
From the article "Racism Within West Point"
http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point
-A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).)
From the article "Racism Within West Point"
http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point
Posted in these groups: 
United States Military Academy (USMA West Point)
Black Lives Matter
PoliticsUSCC
UCMJ
United States Military Academy (USMA West Point) Black Lives Matter PoliticsUSCC UCMJ
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 237
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I rarely voice my opinion or engage others on topics like these because it seems like it only ends badly for those that disagree with the ones that support it.
It's extremely obvious that they're supporting the Black Lives Matter organization, and it's very unprofessional conduct of indiduals that will become Officers in the near future.
I don't mean to sound unprofessional by any means myself, but it's also obvious why the Senior Leaders in the Army are so poor these days. If you'll notice, it's Officers, particularly in the rank/grade of LTC/0-5 that are basically supporting these actions right here in these comments! It's actually quite sad that the Army is so full of them. I've known/known of quite a few Senior Officers that would never have allowed this type of stuff.
This is a school that is supposed to be providing the next leaders of the Army, and people are still wondering why the Army is going down hill...?
I have no doubt that any Officer on Rally Point, active or retired, can call my Battalion Commander or higher and complain that I voiced my opinion in a disrespectful tone, manner, etc. Once again, these are the types of Senior Leaders that cause the Army to lose quality Officers and NCOs. I have known so many great leaders, Officers and NCOs to ETS that it's demotivating. It's so frustrating to have to deal with poor leadership when added to all of the other things that Service Members have to deal with these days.
I recently hit my 13th year of service and have been a SFC/E-7 for nearly 3 of those, and will most likely ETS after my current contract ends. Most senior leaders wouldn't care because it doesn't effect them at all, but it should say something, if guys are getting out at 15 years just so they don't have to deal with another 5 years of these shenanigans.
Times have changed, that's for sure!
It's extremely obvious that they're supporting the Black Lives Matter organization, and it's very unprofessional conduct of indiduals that will become Officers in the near future.
I don't mean to sound unprofessional by any means myself, but it's also obvious why the Senior Leaders in the Army are so poor these days. If you'll notice, it's Officers, particularly in the rank/grade of LTC/0-5 that are basically supporting these actions right here in these comments! It's actually quite sad that the Army is so full of them. I've known/known of quite a few Senior Officers that would never have allowed this type of stuff.
This is a school that is supposed to be providing the next leaders of the Army, and people are still wondering why the Army is going down hill...?
I have no doubt that any Officer on Rally Point, active or retired, can call my Battalion Commander or higher and complain that I voiced my opinion in a disrespectful tone, manner, etc. Once again, these are the types of Senior Leaders that cause the Army to lose quality Officers and NCOs. I have known so many great leaders, Officers and NCOs to ETS that it's demotivating. It's so frustrating to have to deal with poor leadership when added to all of the other things that Service Members have to deal with these days.
I recently hit my 13th year of service and have been a SFC/E-7 for nearly 3 of those, and will most likely ETS after my current contract ends. Most senior leaders wouldn't care because it doesn't effect them at all, but it should say something, if guys are getting out at 15 years just so they don't have to deal with another 5 years of these shenanigans.
Times have changed, that's for sure!
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LTC Eric Coger
CPT (Anonymous) - I don't go by the talking heads either, but I do believe what I see and hear from group leaders. BLM is not peaceful nor is it a "Civil Rights" group. It was founded on a lie (mistake?) and has been involved in promoting violence. They are no better than our elected officials who jump to the wrong conclusions with minimal evidence. I do agree that they are a reaction to perceived injustice however misdirected and that problems in our country need to be addressed. Racially motivated groups are usually on the wrong path.
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LTC Eric Coger
CPT (Anonymous) - Wow , you seem to be lock stock and barrel as a Democrat operative. Race relations have been hurt more by Pres Obama than any other administration since Jackson. He has weighed in on news events with little or inaccurate information and stoked the flames of racial animosity with his ill timed, ill thought out input, starting with the incident with the Harvard professor, continuing on with Trayvon Martin, and his support for BLM (based on a lie, false witness testimony in Ferguson), etc.
Voter Suppression? Total BS, there is nothing racial or party sided about Voter ID laws that is a total falsehood
Gerrymandering is done by incumbents of both parties (almost always to protect "safe' seats and to ensure minority seats in urban areas)
Mass Incarceration? Even if we release all non-violent drug offenders (which I think we should), 70%+ of murders are black on black in the US while only comprising about12-15% of the population; we have a serious cultural/moral crisis with the breakdown of the family that has disproportionately hit the black community and is at the heart of the Democratic Party's aim to have big government replace parents
Katrina? Are you f'ing serious? Blame the Dem Gov and the lack of preparedness; that was not race related at all. Texas and Alabama recovered mush better and faster; Louisiana hasn't learned the lessons since Huey Long and have by far some of the most corrupt political manueverings in the entire country.
NRA? WTF? How is the inherent basic right self defense race related?
Women's Health? Do you mean abortion? I thought Obamacare made all that free and covered? Contraceptives and abortion are not in any way "health: care. And your comment about that hitting minority women harder is the sin of soft racism that is inherent in your entire argument. You think minority women are not as capable of keeping their legs closed or waiting for marriage to have kids? Wow, that is the most racist thing of your entire racist comment. You sir, are a pawn filled with false blame and false data. I pity you and those who don't take responsibility for your own actions and then look for a scapegoat.
Voter Suppression? Total BS, there is nothing racial or party sided about Voter ID laws that is a total falsehood
Gerrymandering is done by incumbents of both parties (almost always to protect "safe' seats and to ensure minority seats in urban areas)
Mass Incarceration? Even if we release all non-violent drug offenders (which I think we should), 70%+ of murders are black on black in the US while only comprising about12-15% of the population; we have a serious cultural/moral crisis with the breakdown of the family that has disproportionately hit the black community and is at the heart of the Democratic Party's aim to have big government replace parents
Katrina? Are you f'ing serious? Blame the Dem Gov and the lack of preparedness; that was not race related at all. Texas and Alabama recovered mush better and faster; Louisiana hasn't learned the lessons since Huey Long and have by far some of the most corrupt political manueverings in the entire country.
NRA? WTF? How is the inherent basic right self defense race related?
Women's Health? Do you mean abortion? I thought Obamacare made all that free and covered? Contraceptives and abortion are not in any way "health: care. And your comment about that hitting minority women harder is the sin of soft racism that is inherent in your entire argument. You think minority women are not as capable of keeping their legs closed or waiting for marriage to have kids? Wow, that is the most racist thing of your entire racist comment. You sir, are a pawn filled with false blame and false data. I pity you and those who don't take responsibility for your own actions and then look for a scapegoat.
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SFC (Join to see)
Walter Lukesh , it's actually a blessing for us that you left the Army. I can only assume by your pointless and disrespectful comments on this thread, that you weren't so successful with your military "career".
I'm also quite sure that you got out because you hated it, your leadership was garbage, someone was always trying to hold you back, the Army was this and that, and so on. What did you do to change it..? Nothing, that's what. You probably got out for whatever bitter reason, now here you are on a site for all service members, be disrespectful, and making yourself sound ignorant I might add, because you still have no respect for others and absolutely no discipline.
It's completely fine to disagree with another individual, but you should only comment on a topic if you have valid points that support your point of view on the topic.
Making unprofessional and disrespectful comments about an individual's MOS, branch, or simple 1-4 word comments, etc. will never help you. It will only show your ignorance and immaturity.
I hope you get your yourself together and can at least be a productive member of society as a civilian.
From this point on, do us all a favor and make your points as I mentioned or simply do not comment.
LTC Eric Coger
I'm also quite sure that you got out because you hated it, your leadership was garbage, someone was always trying to hold you back, the Army was this and that, and so on. What did you do to change it..? Nothing, that's what. You probably got out for whatever bitter reason, now here you are on a site for all service members, be disrespectful, and making yourself sound ignorant I might add, because you still have no respect for others and absolutely no discipline.
It's completely fine to disagree with another individual, but you should only comment on a topic if you have valid points that support your point of view on the topic.
Making unprofessional and disrespectful comments about an individual's MOS, branch, or simple 1-4 word comments, etc. will never help you. It will only show your ignorance and immaturity.
I hope you get your yourself together and can at least be a productive member of society as a civilian.
From this point on, do us all a favor and make your points as I mentioned or simply do not comment.
LTC Eric Coger
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LTC Eric Coger
Walter Lukesh - Who is in the Air Force and has a desk job (nothing wrong with those, we wouldn't have them if we didn't need them), but my profile says otherwise. Though, it has nothing to do with this thread.
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I like all of the tap dancing here. It's cute. I think everyone here knows exactly what this gesture represents. Additionally, I'm sure a group of white male cadets with fingers extended and joined, and raised 45 degrees to their front would elicit a much different response.
That being said, I don't know what authorities cadets fall under and don't particularly care. They are kids. We all did dumbass things when we were kids.
That being said, I don't know what authorities cadets fall under and don't particularly care. They are kids. We all did dumbass things when we were kids.
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1SG Antonio Blount
1LT Kurt Mccarthy - So my point is made, we are judging the cadets because of the color of there skin and whats going on in America? So you are telling me we have a race tensions going on in America in 2016? Maybe you should look at your intentions if you feel you have to use a cropped photo. So what makes you any different than these cadets? I reposted the picture to bait people like you, to show people will do things to keep sh@t going.
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1LT Kurt Mccarthy
1SG Antonio Blount - Yes there is a huge amount of racial tension in America. I see what your point is, so I ask what is your take on the attached photos? Citadel Cadets stating that they were dressed as "Ghosts" while singing Christmas carols? These Cadets were suspended and very well should have been. "People like me" see through the photo for what it is. My last silver bullet went to my African American NCO over two other white NCOs. My point stands that they are Officers in the United States Army and should have had better situational awareness. Some of the Cadets looked uncomfortable while they took the picture. Therefore, some of them seemed to know that it wasn't a good gesture to make. These are now Lieutenants that will be leading Soldiers. If one of them cant think to themselves and say not right now, then how will they react in a combat situation? Just because you chose to look at the picture superficially doesn't mean everybody will. There seems to be an overwhelming amount of "people like me" on this website. I honestly could care less where they stand, I am stating that there should have been more awareness when in Uniform. It reflects poorly on the Army as a whole, especially when it is Leaders that are making the statement. Here is the link to the article. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/citadel-cadets-caught-wearing-kkk-hoods-singing-carols-article-1.2462139
Citadel cadets caught wearing KKK hoods while singing carols
These Citadel cadets were singing Christmas carols for the ghost of racist past.
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1SG Antonio Blount
I think me and you are having a pretty good debate here and we are respecting each other’s views. I do see your point but we as leaders shouldn’t be quick to jump to conclusion because a lot of other people are commenting on this picture negatively. I never looked at the picture as black lives movement support, but when I read a lot of the comments I was like, I could see there points of view but no unless we are looking at the color of their skin. I’m one for facts, not theories and social media, I would want to see the AR 15-6 or commander inquiry. From that I could make a more accurate decision on if this was a black lives movement gesture or support. Now for the ghost photo, dressed as Ghost while singing Christmas carols same thing, let me see the AR 15-6 or commander inquiry before I pass my professional judgement, now for my personal judgement, I would say, I’m not bying it. Sometimes our initial responses can cause lasting impressions when an act is innocence was involved even if judgment warranted a better judgement or think process. In cases like this, we as leads now get to be mentor and hopefully guide whomever in the right direction.
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CW3 (Join to see)
SFC That is not the correct way of looking at it. Everyone in that picture is over 18 and full adults. What is the age a person has to get to before they are accountable for their actions, 25, 35, 45? When do we stop saying "they are kids we all do stupid things as kids". I take it you do not discipline your young Soldiers because they are just kids. We give them weapons and send them out to do violent things but hey their just kids.
As far as what these future leaders are doing I will leave it alone. As far as I care the investigation was done and they were dealt with and they learned a valuable lesson that "if" they were allowed to continue their careers then they will take this with them. I have to trust those leaders in charge of them and know them personally made the right decision one way or the other.
As far as what these future leaders are doing I will leave it alone. As far as I care the investigation was done and they were dealt with and they learned a valuable lesson that "if" they were allowed to continue their careers then they will take this with them. I have to trust those leaders in charge of them and know them personally made the right decision one way or the other.
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COL Sam Russell These are not 'kids', they are in their last year at West Point! In a moment, they will become commissioned officers with responsibilities! Aren't they using the same 'social media' negatively critiqued in the CSM Flournoy situation? West Point apparently failed to make definite impressions on these cadets!
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SSG Dennis Grossmann
2LT Victor Porsenna - "No one hates white people"... What did Louis Farrakhan mean when he called for an Army of 10000 to kill "Whitey"?
Rosa Parks wasn't the first woman of color to refuse a seat in the back of the bus and she didn't trash and burn the bus.
That ship has sailed and a decision has been made.
Rosa Parks wasn't the first woman of color to refuse a seat in the back of the bus and she didn't trash and burn the bus.
That ship has sailed and a decision has been made.
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SSG Dennis Grossmann
Claudette Colvin was the 15 year old who refused to give up her seat 9 months prior to Rosa Parks. The NAACP and other organizations didnt think Claudette fit the image. Interesting history
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2LT Victor Porsenna
SSG Dennis Grossmann - Most reasonable people do not hate anybody for arbitrary reasons. I dont think that Farrakhan is a reasonable person judging by his homophobic and anti Semitic speech. Also if you replace Colvin with Parks, the core of my message does not change. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish there. If you like I would be glad to talk to you in the private messages.
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SSG Dennis Grossmann
2LT Victor Porsenna - I'm not trying to start anything, I realize that you are a very reasonable person and have the chance for a very good career of you choose to do so. My Faux Pas was using one of my former writing professors pet peeves that rubbed off on me. That's the use of concrete words over general. You are correct that most reasonable people don't hate. So I do apologize. This subject has been beaten to death. The investigation is over and done whether anyone agrees or disagrees with it, the decision stands.
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