Posted on Jul 23, 2014
1SG Larry Everly
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Posted in these groups: 6262122778 997339a086 z PoliticsArctic ice nasa goddard flickr Climate Change
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Col Joel Anderson
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Edited 10 y ago
I look at climate change like a relationship with a teenager. You can have a discussion with any young pup and explain to them consequences of their actions, consequences of cause and effect, consequences of not investing in their future and thinking things through to logical solutions and end-states.

The reality is that changes are occurring yet our comfort zone has not been radically affected. Yep it is currently 22 degrees outside and I just got in from a walk around campus. Although my immediate comfort zone was temporarily effected, what's the big deal. It will get warmer, it will get colder, it will rain, it will snow. So what?

I watched a 60 minutes segment on water last night. We are taking money out of our "environmental savings accounts" and not putting anything back in. Water issues abound. Tell California to "fear not" it will rain again some day. Climate issues abound. Ice caps and glaciers are receding at alarming rates. Weather patterns are changing. Population growth continues, urbanization and industrialization as well and yet we just keep bantering back and forth on philosophical diatribes that in the end, serve no purpose other than obfuscating issues and the endless stalemate of stale discussions about necessary change.

What happens in our dialogue when all of a sudden we hit a non-refundable/non-renewable savings account and hit the breakeven point of negative returns because we are far too enamored with arguing that something needs to be changed. We really do need to think into the future, outside of our comfort zones and get past the rhetoric.
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SSG William Patton
SSG William Patton
10 y
Research shows us we have had climate change throughout history and we will have it again as long as the planet exists. We do not have enough current historical weather data to clearly understand what is going on now, or when it will end, or what the untimate outcome will be. The only consensus is change is going to occur. The ice caps and glaciers that were receding a few years ago are now back with avengence and cover more area than before. Nothing more than changes taking place that are beyond our control.
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Col Joel Anderson
Col Joel Anderson
10 y
Yep, I hear you. Research tell us this, and research tells us that. Dont get me wrong, I live in that world now. I just go back to the conversation with a teenager. Hey, do you think that maybe....? Regardless of what the follow on to the sentence is you will go down a very interesting path.

Take the world population issue for example. I had an interesting "discussion" with an individual on that topic. His point was exactly the same. Research has indicated that....and then on and on with the point counter point. In the end, his position was that world population growth was actually declining. Ok, so I agreed with him, it is declining and at growing rate. The population will still exceed 9 Billion by 2050. Who cares about the subtle nuances. There still will be growth albeit not as large or as fast as in the past.

My point in all this, and thanks SSG Patton for the comment, is yep lets continue to discuss it all but lets do something productive about it. Thanks again and keep pluggin.

A...
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Randy Torgerson
10 y
Productive?
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Col Joel Anderson
Col Joel Anderson
10 y
And beauty is in the eye of the beholder
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CPL Rick Stasny
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There is no question that the earth is warming. However, I have to ask, what ended the last ice age? The earth warmed and the ice cap receded. This with no factories, automobiles, and other man made influence. It seems to me that the smaller the ice fields, the more rapidly they should shrink. I think that the neanderthals are to blame for whole damn thing. How dare they have too many camp fires.
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MAJ Deputy Director, Combat Casualty Care Research Program
MAJ (Join to see)
10 y
CPL Rick Stasny The difference now is that the rate is around 100 times quicker than at any point in history and there are no natural phenomena to explain it.
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CPL Rick Stasny
CPL Rick Stasny
10 y
I do not distribute that the rate has increased, but when you take a large amount of anything frozen, as the mass decreases, the speed in which thawing takes place is also increased. It will be up to man to come up. With solutions not to fix it, but to adapt and prepare future generations.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Randy Torgerson
10 y
The problem is no one can explain much of anything. Its warmer, wow! Its cooler, wow! Its changing, wow! Its changing faster than normal, wow! The ice caps are melting, wow! The ice caps are growing, wow!

Seems like there is always a WOW factor going on. I woke up this morning, wow!

In fact, I think there was a time when people thought the world was flat, wow! Then someone discovered it was round, wow!
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Randy Torgerson
10 y
CPL Rick Stansny may be the smartest person I have ever met on this subject. Thank you for the wisdom to suggest we should let mother nature do its thing. It knows whats best for the planet.

If in a 100 years the human population has the power to change the world climate so dramatically, why can't we terraform other planets? If we're causing it and we know how we're causing it, why can't we warm up Mars?

Seriously, where do we get statistics showing the planet climate is changing 100 times faster than anytime in the last 4 billion years? I don't think we even have ice core samples going back more than 50,000 years... What data shows this 100 times faster now then say 2 billion years ago?
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SFC Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Operations Specialist
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I have my suspicions that global warming is a myth. Research has been done, myths proven/disproven, and more and more theories are flooding the Introwebs every day. But, in my opinion, I feel that global warming is nothing but unnecessary fear pressed on the public.
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SSG Keven Lahde
SSG Keven Lahde
10 y
Global warming, I hope to be dead by then if it does happen....lol
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LCpl Steve Wininger
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I am all for taking care of the planet, however, I believe the global warming scare is over exaggerated.

There is too many conflicting reports to call global warming a crisis. Depending on what scientist you ask, and their agenda, will get you different results.

My personal, non-professional belief, based on what little I know is, global warming is a hoax. Another way the government tries to use whatever it can to control us.
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MSgt Electrical Power Production
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Some more reading material. http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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SP5 Michael Rathbun
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Edited 10 y ago
The Earth's climate system is an enormously complex nonlinear dynamical system. Having worked on relatively small complex nonlinear dynamical systems (writing software for an automobile engine controller to regulate the idle speed, for example) I can state without hesitation that these things behave in ways that will blow your hat off (or whatever might indicate astonishment for you).

The study of complex nonlinear dynamical systems is somewhere between science and a black art, but there are some simple examples that can illustrate some principles.

Principle: Adding energy to a nonlinear dynamical system will tend to cause the peak-to-average ratio of at least one system parameter to increase. (In climate terms, it means that tripling the input of trapped solar energy is going to cause some things to become more extreme -- hotter summers some places, colder winters other places, five-mile-wide tornados...).

Simple illustration of this principle: A child on a swing.

You gently push the child forward, and she swings back. You push again, and she swings a bit farther. Note that her AVERAGE position is where she started: motionless at position zero. But by now her PEAK position may be quite a ways away from the stopped position.

Principle: nonlinear dynamical systems may exhibit sudden unexpected "phase" changes as the energy budget of the system changes.

Example: you continue to push the child on the swing until she eventually achieves such a height that the rope or chain on the swing loses tension and she actually does a bit of free fall before re-entering the normal swing regime. (When I was about six, it took me a while to figure out why things got jerky if swung too high.)

And that's a simple nonlinear dynamical system, consisting of swing set, child and adult pusher.

Perhaps it wasn't humans who dug up all that carbon and burned it for power and warmth, thereby tripling the relative concentration of a gas known to be opaque to a large part of the infrared spectrum, but there is demonstrably a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere now than there was 200 years ago.

This much is certain: you can't wish away the laws of Physics, and you can't BEGIN to predict what the global system will do as its solar energy intake continues to rise.

But it will make some cool movies, if there is anybody around to make them.
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SFC 92 A Pdnco
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Climate change is already happening I don't understand why people don't see it. It is not normal to get up and it's 80 degrees then drops to 30 and snows on the same day or the other way around. People think global climate is going to change like in the movie 2012. Climate change is here and is changing our world already. Is like this..... People claim that theories are just theories but so is the theory of gravity and I'm 100% sure that everyone believes in that one.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Randy Torgerson
10 y
With all due respect SSG Gonzalez, there are really 2 arguments here. The first one is "is there climate change"? And the 2nd one is "are humans the primary cause"?

Again with all due respect again SSG Gonzalez, you say its not normal to get up and have 80 degrees and 30 degrees by night fall... Well 2 points here, first, if your about 35 years old and you probably can't remember the weather when you were 5 years old so that leaves you with 30 years of experience out of a couple of billion years to figure out what is normal.... my 2nd point is that I grew up in Minnesota and I can tell you that in the 1970's we had some 80 degree days and 30 degree nights. I'm just saying.....

Lastly I fall back on the notion that climate change has been going on for that few billion years, so I'm doubtful humans have much to do with it... but that's my opinion of course.
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SFC 92 A Pdnco
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I understand where you are coming from absolutely. Human beings, being the primary cause? Maybe not. However are we contribututing to the problem? I believe so because we are not doing anything better for the environment. I understand what you mean by we are only a spectackle in the universe's age but that doesn't mean we cannot cause an impact. I have lived in many places however and a temperature change of that magnitude. I am from Los Angeles and I know there a cold day is anything around 60s but if one day you wake up and is snowing would you consider that normal? I know it happened to Long Beach back in 2012. Definitely not normal...
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Sgt S.P. Woodke
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oh didnt you know... didnt you Hear... they changed it... the name is now called climate Change...
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Sgt S.P. Woodke
Sgt S.P. Woodke
10 y
The shift of of the earth from the Japan earthquake caused more damage in 4 minutes than ALL of mankind's actions. Don't forget - Volcanic activitiy in Iceland...We NEED to make it illegal for Nature to happen....
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Randy Torgerson
10 y
Sgt S.P. Woodke, did that really come from NASA?
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Sgt S.P. Woodke
Sgt S.P. Woodke
10 y
it most Certainly did SPC Randy Torgerson
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SPC Randy Torgerson
10 y
Are these the same people who blew up a rocket a few weeks ago? That was a childish comment I just made...haha

HAPPY VETERANS DAY!
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SSG General Services Technician And State Vehicle Inspector
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Probably because many are too emotionally compromised to accept scientific facts.
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SFC Jeff L.
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Headline: Sub-Glacial Volcano expected to erupt in Iceland - Is Man to Blame for Resulting Loss of Ice and Increased Greenhouse Gasses? What Can Be Done to Stop It Before It's Too Late?
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SFC Mark Hines
SFC Mark Hines
10 y
Have all the climate alarmist gather there and use all their hot air to counteract the volcano!
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