Posted on Oct 13, 2017
How would you handle a situation where you saw a soldier (even one of your own soldiers) kneeling during our national anthem?
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Patriotism
UCMJ
Army Regulations
Counseling
Article 15
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 658
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Out of uniform and off-base, nothing identifying him or her as a service member; I'd let it pass.
In uniform or actively signaling that he/she is a service member, I'd identify myself and ask to see ID. Then I would ask their unit, the unit's phone number, and the unit's senior SNCO. Finally I would tell them that I would be referring the matter to their senior SNCO, and advise them that they probably want to make sure that SNCO knows before 0800 on the next work day. Because I will by 0815. And God help them if they've lied about what unit they belong to because I will track them down.
In uniform or actively signaling that he/she is a service member, I'd identify myself and ask to see ID. Then I would ask their unit, the unit's phone number, and the unit's senior SNCO. Finally I would tell them that I would be referring the matter to their senior SNCO, and advise them that they probably want to make sure that SNCO knows before 0800 on the next work day. Because I will by 0815. And God help them if they've lied about what unit they belong to because I will track them down.
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Maj John Bell
SFC Barbara Layman - If you read the post immediately above yours, you will see that I acknowledged a correction offered by CPO Michael Burns. For all Naval personnel, Sailors and Marines, there is a General Order which covers the matter.
If I knew the person kneeling was a Sailor or Marine, I would:
_correct them on the spot upon completion of the National Anthem,
_ask for ID,
_inform that that I will be letting my counterpart in their chain of command know and
_suggest that they inform the 1st NCO/SNCO above them in the chain of command that there may be inbound on the way.
I have not seen any citation offered by any members of the other services that indicates a general order (GO) exists for their service. Since the GO that covers honors to the colors is an ALNAV, and does not reference a SecDEF instruction. I do not know that such a GO exists for the other services and in a disciplinary matter it would be inappropriate to demand that service members of the other services meet the standard for Naval personnel.
If you have served in joint commands you should be aware that there exist quite a few differences between the customs, courtesies and traditions of the different services. Examples:
_Sailors, Marines and Naval officers do not salute when uncovered,
_Sailors Marines and Naval officers only remain covered indoors when standing post or under arms.
On joint assignments I had a few pissing contests with Jr officers, SNCO's and NCO's of other services who took disciplinary action into their own hands with my Marines on these issues. Not being fully aware of your services' customs, courtesies, traditions and GO's, I'm not going to impose my service's customs, courtesies, traditions and GO's on your soldiers.
If I know an infraction has taken place I deal with it. If uncertain that an infraction has taken case, I find out what the standard is. I don't embarrass myself and damage my credibility/authority by jumping froggy. How about you?
If I knew the person kneeling was a Sailor or Marine, I would:
_correct them on the spot upon completion of the National Anthem,
_ask for ID,
_inform that that I will be letting my counterpart in their chain of command know and
_suggest that they inform the 1st NCO/SNCO above them in the chain of command that there may be inbound on the way.
I have not seen any citation offered by any members of the other services that indicates a general order (GO) exists for their service. Since the GO that covers honors to the colors is an ALNAV, and does not reference a SecDEF instruction. I do not know that such a GO exists for the other services and in a disciplinary matter it would be inappropriate to demand that service members of the other services meet the standard for Naval personnel.
If you have served in joint commands you should be aware that there exist quite a few differences between the customs, courtesies and traditions of the different services. Examples:
_Sailors, Marines and Naval officers do not salute when uncovered,
_Sailors Marines and Naval officers only remain covered indoors when standing post or under arms.
On joint assignments I had a few pissing contests with Jr officers, SNCO's and NCO's of other services who took disciplinary action into their own hands with my Marines on these issues. Not being fully aware of your services' customs, courtesies, traditions and GO's, I'm not going to impose my service's customs, courtesies, traditions and GO's on your soldiers.
If I know an infraction has taken place I deal with it. If uncertain that an infraction has taken case, I find out what the standard is. I don't embarrass myself and damage my credibility/authority by jumping froggy. How about you?
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SFC Brian Gillum
I like this answer. Not only because it is a good answer, but because I have used this exact method. Carried it over to my days as a police officer dealing with juveniles.
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LTC James McElreath
BS let them pass is not the answer!! Have a QA with the soldier then report the soldier to at least the Post Staff Duty NCO or Officer.
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Maj John Bell
LTC James McElreath - LTC James McElreath - Is there an order that requires a soldier in civilian attire to render appropriate honors for the colors? So far, the only services that appear to have such an order (SecNavInst) are the Navy and Marines. There is nothing in DOD Directive 1344.10 Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces that prohibits service members from engaging in political protest as long as they draw no link between their protest and their service.
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Depends on the circumstances.
Off duty and out of uniform, we would have a quiet conversation.
On duty and/or in uniform, he would have a really bad day.
Off duty and out of uniform, we would have a quiet conversation.
On duty and/or in uniform, he would have a really bad day.
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1SG James Kelly
1SG James Kelly - We don't wave the constitution going into battle.
We swore to uphold the constitution, the flag is a symbol of our oath.
We swore to uphold the constitution, the flag is a symbol of our oath.
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LTC James McElreath
There is no excuse for failing in the use of proper military bearing. The lack of disrespect for our nation and for those having given their lives to protect the AH's right to be collected up and shown why he/she does not have the right to disrespect our country. If they wish to neal, then get the heck out of our services
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PFC Clifford Kelley
SP5 Harold Cartwright because you signed away part of those rights. As a representative of the US military you are held to a higher standard. If you want to kneel then wait until you leave the service then you can do what you want. If you don't want to follow the rules don't join. Easy peasy!
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If a soldier kneels during the National Anthem he or she can be Courts Martialed.
Free Speech in the military is constrained by the UCMJ.
DOD Directive 1344.10 - POLITICAL ACTIVITIES BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES ON ACTIVE DUTY, extend these same requirements to all individuals on active duty.
Active duty enlisted members and warrant officers who violate these provisions can be charged under Article 92 of the UCMJ, Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation.
Free Speech in the military is constrained by the UCMJ.
DOD Directive 1344.10 - POLITICAL ACTIVITIES BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES ON ACTIVE DUTY, extend these same requirements to all individuals on active duty.
Active duty enlisted members and warrant officers who violate these provisions can be charged under Article 92 of the UCMJ, Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation.
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SSgt Ron Simpson
We did not give our most solumn oath to the National Anthem or the Flag. We gave it to Our Constitution.
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Maj John Bell
COL William Oseles
DoD Directive 1344.10 does not address rendering or failing to render honors to the flag directly, nor to my understanding indirectly. On what specific paragraph and subparagraph are you basing your opinion?
DoD Directive 1344.10 does not address rendering or failing to render honors to the flag directly, nor to my understanding indirectly. On what specific paragraph and subparagraph are you basing your opinion?
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SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
Sgt Lelyn Minkel - Disgusting & despicable ( I recommend a "Blanket Party" at midnight).
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