Posted on Oct 9, 2020
Gretchen Whitmer Blames Trump's Rhetoric for the Plot To Kidnap Her, but There's No Evidence It...
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Even after President Trump's Department of Justice and FBI foil a plot to kidnap the Michigan governor she has the nerve to blame him for the plot.
Gretchen Whitmer Blames Trump's Rhetoric for the Plot To Kidnap Her, but There's No Evidence It...
Posted from reason.com
Election 2020
Republicans
Crime
Democrats
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 9
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There is no direct evidence, but there is lots of historical evidence that given the level or rhetoric that is coming out of the White House, groups like this will be emboldened to take action.
It's actually pretty funny in a grim way, myself and many others have been predicting that the president's rhetoric would lead to these types of actions and we keep hearing from his supporters how no one takes him seriously. Then when it happens (and this isn't the first time we've seen something like this) we hear how it couldn't have been at all caused by his rhetoric despite our predictions.
It's actually pretty funny in a grim way, myself and many others have been predicting that the president's rhetoric would lead to these types of actions and we keep hearing from his supporters how no one takes him seriously. Then when it happens (and this isn't the first time we've seen something like this) we hear how it couldn't have been at all caused by his rhetoric despite our predictions.
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SSG Robert Ricci
Trump denounces KKK and racism in Charlottesville - BBC News
Donald Trump has denounced racist violence after the killing of a protester in Charlottesville, Virginia. He said the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and white supre...
I'm going to speculate that you haven't actually read the article above because that's not a meme. Click on it and there's the article.
Without article in mind oh, it's not factual. Governor Whitmer was advised by her Security Services and the FBI of threats to her and her staff more than two months ago. For her to come out just after the President says "Stand Down - standby" and then blame an attempt on her based on this statement. President Trump is not a military man and I believe in his mind when he made that statement he meant stop. Incorrectly used the phrase standby that we is military have a meaning for. It is not just disingenuous, which is just a pretty word lawyers use for a lie, it's complete crap. She knew! One only needs to Google the question, "Was governor wittner advised more than two months ago of credible threats against her life?" I found the exact article on the New York Times but I try to avoid posting links that when you click on them they require you to subscribe to the newspaper online in order to read the article. That's my community service for the day. LOL. Governor Whitmer has known since May as a simple Google search will show the credible threats had begun to be received. I really don't want to sound condescending or patronizing, but I ask respectfully that you do a little homework. Then at least you will see the facts that I've outlined are accurate. It is one thing to form an opinion especially when based on the MSM and entirely another to base it on facts. I can tell that you are an intelligent person. Check it out and see how you feel after reading some of the articles.
I am going to challenge you to provide me empirical evidence that vigilantism has drastically increased since President Trump was elected. I can save you the trouble by telling you you won't find that information. Maybe you are led to believe that by watching MSM. But you're not going to find statistical evidence supporting your statement.
Lastly, it would appear that you haven't read my previous comments in this thread because I have posted YouTube videos where President Trump has absolutely and without any ambiguity denounced the KKK, terrorism, and white supremacy and any and everything else that is detrimental to the United States of America. I'm going to attach another video just for you.
I find it difficult to be short hiiraan RP because I am an information-based person. I research and I try to do it in a fair Manner and get both sides. I have to be honest however that your statements same disingenuous and not fact-based. The only thing I read that I could agree with is that there is no evidence. But then you contradict yourself and say that there is historical evidence. Please provide that evidence. That sir is going to be subjective rather than objective.
With these things said, let me wish you a wonderful Sunday morning and I hope you have a great day. Please watch the video I am attaching.
https://youtu.be/S6PFZNruJes
Without article in mind oh, it's not factual. Governor Whitmer was advised by her Security Services and the FBI of threats to her and her staff more than two months ago. For her to come out just after the President says "Stand Down - standby" and then blame an attempt on her based on this statement. President Trump is not a military man and I believe in his mind when he made that statement he meant stop. Incorrectly used the phrase standby that we is military have a meaning for. It is not just disingenuous, which is just a pretty word lawyers use for a lie, it's complete crap. She knew! One only needs to Google the question, "Was governor wittner advised more than two months ago of credible threats against her life?" I found the exact article on the New York Times but I try to avoid posting links that when you click on them they require you to subscribe to the newspaper online in order to read the article. That's my community service for the day. LOL. Governor Whitmer has known since May as a simple Google search will show the credible threats had begun to be received. I really don't want to sound condescending or patronizing, but I ask respectfully that you do a little homework. Then at least you will see the facts that I've outlined are accurate. It is one thing to form an opinion especially when based on the MSM and entirely another to base it on facts. I can tell that you are an intelligent person. Check it out and see how you feel after reading some of the articles.
I am going to challenge you to provide me empirical evidence that vigilantism has drastically increased since President Trump was elected. I can save you the trouble by telling you you won't find that information. Maybe you are led to believe that by watching MSM. But you're not going to find statistical evidence supporting your statement.
Lastly, it would appear that you haven't read my previous comments in this thread because I have posted YouTube videos where President Trump has absolutely and without any ambiguity denounced the KKK, terrorism, and white supremacy and any and everything else that is detrimental to the United States of America. I'm going to attach another video just for you.
I find it difficult to be short hiiraan RP because I am an information-based person. I research and I try to do it in a fair Manner and get both sides. I have to be honest however that your statements same disingenuous and not fact-based. The only thing I read that I could agree with is that there is no evidence. But then you contradict yourself and say that there is historical evidence. Please provide that evidence. That sir is going to be subjective rather than objective.
With these things said, let me wish you a wonderful Sunday morning and I hope you have a great day. Please watch the video I am attaching.
https://youtu.be/S6PFZNruJes
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SPC Kevin Ford
SSG Robert Ricci -
That video you gave is an example of what I'm talking about. When backed into a corner he will do it, but only when being attacked for it. In that case, he delivered that statement after being lambasted by the press. Here is one such contemporary article out there before he gave that statement.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/12/politics/trump-charlottesville-statement/index.html
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138906/president-trump-remarks-condemning-violence-on-many-sides-charlottesville-rally
https://religionnews.com/2017/08/13/charlottesville-trump/
(I could keep going, he was getting hit pretty hard over his earlier comments)
As I said earlier, when backed into a corner he will say something, but that is not his first instinct, it's never his first instinct. Only when he is cleaning up some prior mess and under pressure will he say anything like that, as is the case in that video you just gave. But given time he will again say something that will make everyone question how he feels. I don't know of anyone who accidentally says so many things that make people question if they are supporting racists have have to keep clarifying past comments. I don't think I'm the only one that needs to "do their homework" here.
The meme I mentioned wasn't what you posted but the meme I posted. I suspect you misunderstood.
As far as vigilantism, no records of exact counts are not kept, but the idea we can't come to a conclusion in their absence is not how all logic works. We don't need hard counts on everything, we can infer it. Deductive logic isn't the only logic we use daily to understand the world we live in, inductive logic is something we also rely on. So let's start by talking a little about vigilantism and its causes. I'll give you a little reading to do.
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20200828-vigilantism-again-in-the-news-is-an-american-tradition
Let's dig a little into the idea of rises in vigilantism happen "...in times and places where who belongs to a particular community is up for debate." When there is increased pressure on demonizing illegal immigrants for example, we can expect an increase in vigilantism. This is something that has been a theme in Trump's presidency starting at his announcement.
To be clear, militias didn't start with Trump nor vigilantism. But based on when vigilantism will increase we can expect to see it rise given the climate he has been fostering. So in the absence of any direct numbers on vigilantism and we see more reports of in in the media, we can just tell ourselves what we want to hear and think it's all the media sensationalizing what has been happening. Or we could look at the causes of vigilantism and understand when we see what appears to be a rise and use some inductive logic to come to the conclusion that it is a predictable result. Now to be fair, inductive logic isn't perfect and it could be wrong but based on what we know of vigilantism, it would seem to be the more likely conclusion than "it's all a media conspiracy"
I'll leave you with a couple more thoughts
First can rhetoric cause violence?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/30/yes-political-rhetoric-can-incite-violence-222019
Have people that caused violence claimed Trump as an inspiration?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889
As far as your beliefs on what Trump made with the "Proud Boys" callout, you have given the best case scenario. That is one where Trump is so inept at expressing himself that white supremacist groups think he is supporting them. Holy sh!t.
That video you gave is an example of what I'm talking about. When backed into a corner he will do it, but only when being attacked for it. In that case, he delivered that statement after being lambasted by the press. Here is one such contemporary article out there before he gave that statement.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/12/politics/trump-charlottesville-statement/index.html
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138906/president-trump-remarks-condemning-violence-on-many-sides-charlottesville-rally
https://religionnews.com/2017/08/13/charlottesville-trump/
(I could keep going, he was getting hit pretty hard over his earlier comments)
As I said earlier, when backed into a corner he will say something, but that is not his first instinct, it's never his first instinct. Only when he is cleaning up some prior mess and under pressure will he say anything like that, as is the case in that video you just gave. But given time he will again say something that will make everyone question how he feels. I don't know of anyone who accidentally says so many things that make people question if they are supporting racists have have to keep clarifying past comments. I don't think I'm the only one that needs to "do their homework" here.
The meme I mentioned wasn't what you posted but the meme I posted. I suspect you misunderstood.
As far as vigilantism, no records of exact counts are not kept, but the idea we can't come to a conclusion in their absence is not how all logic works. We don't need hard counts on everything, we can infer it. Deductive logic isn't the only logic we use daily to understand the world we live in, inductive logic is something we also rely on. So let's start by talking a little about vigilantism and its causes. I'll give you a little reading to do.
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20200828-vigilantism-again-in-the-news-is-an-american-tradition
Let's dig a little into the idea of rises in vigilantism happen "...in times and places where who belongs to a particular community is up for debate." When there is increased pressure on demonizing illegal immigrants for example, we can expect an increase in vigilantism. This is something that has been a theme in Trump's presidency starting at his announcement.
To be clear, militias didn't start with Trump nor vigilantism. But based on when vigilantism will increase we can expect to see it rise given the climate he has been fostering. So in the absence of any direct numbers on vigilantism and we see more reports of in in the media, we can just tell ourselves what we want to hear and think it's all the media sensationalizing what has been happening. Or we could look at the causes of vigilantism and understand when we see what appears to be a rise and use some inductive logic to come to the conclusion that it is a predictable result. Now to be fair, inductive logic isn't perfect and it could be wrong but based on what we know of vigilantism, it would seem to be the more likely conclusion than "it's all a media conspiracy"
I'll leave you with a couple more thoughts
First can rhetoric cause violence?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/30/yes-political-rhetoric-can-incite-violence-222019
Have people that caused violence claimed Trump as an inspiration?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-abc-news-finds-17-cases-invoking-trump/story?id=58912889
As far as your beliefs on what Trump made with the "Proud Boys" callout, you have given the best case scenario. That is one where Trump is so inept at expressing himself that white supremacist groups think he is supporting them. Holy sh!t.
Donald Trump's incredibly unpresidential statement on Charlottesville
A group of white supremacists -- screaming racial, ethnic and misogynistic epithets -- rallied in Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday. One person was killed and 19 others were injured when a car sped into a group of counter-protesters.
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SSG Robert Ricci
SPC Kevin Ford Based on your response I can tell your political leanings because you posted from CNN, VOX, and a writer named Martini Judaism which is a pseudonym used by the author at Religion News. Had you done a little work as I suggested and checked that authors previous articles you would see that he or she - they don't want to disclose who they are - is a liberal, left-wing Jew. I have absolutely no problem with Jews. But I do have a problem with biased MSM reporting. President Trump is overwhelmingly supported by Christian organizations nationwide.
According to various websites located on Google, Religion News is based out of the University of Missouri and is known as being a moderate liberal website. Missouri is known for having some of the most liberal campuses in the country. Again according to Google. They often publish their interpretation of information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. It is run buy a Democrat by the name of Debra Caldwell. Had you actually looked at their advisory Council you will find that a good number of them are based in India and the remainder of them have worked for left-wing liberal news outlets such as Bloomberg News, the New Yorker, the New York Times and others. That tells you their political leaning which puts into context whatever they write. I was a damn good investigator and I didn't stop at just what was in front of me. I blew the dust off if I had to and I looked underneath to find the truth.
You didn't cite evidence. You cited opinion. Give me some evidence otherwise known as facts and not your musings from the MSM left-wing liberals that are going all out with Pro Biden writings an anti Trump ratings and then I'll pay attention to you. 93% of all articles are negative against Trump. That doesn't cover reality.
I don't mean to be rude, but if you had any intellectual honesty you would have understood Charlottesville as the president expressed. When he said that they were some fine people on both sides, he was referring to the protesters and not the violent white supremacist and KKK members. Do you really need it etched in stone to figure out if the MSM doing a number on you?
I can always tell when I'm debating a liberal. They don't come at you with facts. They come at you with BS quotes from the MSM instead of intelligent and informed information. Sir, do your homework before you make a critical mistake on November 3rd. Ronald Reagan had an expression when dealing with the Soviet Union. Trust but verify. You are trusting the words of the MSM but it doesn't appear that you're verifying them. With all due respect.
According to various websites located on Google, Religion News is based out of the University of Missouri and is known as being a moderate liberal website. Missouri is known for having some of the most liberal campuses in the country. Again according to Google. They often publish their interpretation of information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. It is run buy a Democrat by the name of Debra Caldwell. Had you actually looked at their advisory Council you will find that a good number of them are based in India and the remainder of them have worked for left-wing liberal news outlets such as Bloomberg News, the New Yorker, the New York Times and others. That tells you their political leaning which puts into context whatever they write. I was a damn good investigator and I didn't stop at just what was in front of me. I blew the dust off if I had to and I looked underneath to find the truth.
You didn't cite evidence. You cited opinion. Give me some evidence otherwise known as facts and not your musings from the MSM left-wing liberals that are going all out with Pro Biden writings an anti Trump ratings and then I'll pay attention to you. 93% of all articles are negative against Trump. That doesn't cover reality.
I don't mean to be rude, but if you had any intellectual honesty you would have understood Charlottesville as the president expressed. When he said that they were some fine people on both sides, he was referring to the protesters and not the violent white supremacist and KKK members. Do you really need it etched in stone to figure out if the MSM doing a number on you?
I can always tell when I'm debating a liberal. They don't come at you with facts. They come at you with BS quotes from the MSM instead of intelligent and informed information. Sir, do your homework before you make a critical mistake on November 3rd. Ronald Reagan had an expression when dealing with the Soviet Union. Trust but verify. You are trusting the words of the MSM but it doesn't appear that you're verifying them. With all due respect.
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SPC Kevin Ford
SSG Robert Ricci - Bob,
I don't want to put too fine a point on this. But based on the fact that you found a need to bring up the fact that she is Jewish when it has absolutely nothing relevant to add tells me that you do indeed have a problem with Jews. I'm out.
I don't want to put too fine a point on this. But based on the fact that you found a need to bring up the fact that she is Jewish when it has absolutely nothing relevant to add tells me that you do indeed have a problem with Jews. I'm out.
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