Posted on Mar 17, 2024
Commission: Sheriff had cause to take Lewiston gunman into custody 6 weeks before shootings
1.26K
22
10
8
8
0
Posted 8 mo ago
Responses: 3
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel good day Brother William, always informational and of the most interesting. Thanks for sharing, have a blessed day!
(4)
(0)
PO1 H Gene Lawrence
SGT Stephen Rowland - that fire was so horrible. Many good saves died that day. Heroic actions abounded. I saw the film of the fire and resulting explosions. I was in Aviation Ordnance “B” School.when I saw it.
(1)
(0)
SGT Stephen Rowland
The Forrestal was docked side by side to the BB61 Iowa, in Newport Naval base, RI. My wife and I were allowed to join Admiral Beling, my father + ship’s historian to go aboard for a final visit. Remarkably sad, to see such a great ship that so many gave their all and know it would not become a museum but eventually “razor blades “.
(1)
(0)
These cases are almost always easy to see when looked at with the benefit of 20/20 Hindsight.
The Sheriff was 100% correct in his statement: "I was trying to figure out how to skin this cat from a different direction," Skolfield told the commission in January. "I can't make him come out, I can't make him answer the door, I can't make him talk to me. But at the same time I can't go barging into his trailer because he has 4th Amendment issues against search-and-seizure. He hasn't committed a crime." In retrospect, the Sheriff could and probably should have done more, such as accompanying a family member to visit him, but contrary to the dreams of some people, we do still live in a country where individuals still have rights and where legal process is not supposed to be based on third-hand reports about what someone else thinks. "John told me Mike said he thinks Bill might be dangerous" is not supposed to be enough to deprive someone of their liberty or property.
Similarly the report says "Finally, the commission finds that there is a misperception among some law enforcement officers, including Sgt. Skolfield, that they need to have a victim 'press charges' to bring a case to the prosecutor's office," reads the report. "This is simply wrong. It is the prosecutor, acting on behalf of the citizens of Maine, who brings the charges but a prosecutor can only act when those charged with investigating crimes, i.e., law enforcement officers, follow through with their investigations." This statement is legally true, but it ignores the fact that law enforcement needs probable cause. You can't just arrest an individual for "assault" because of third-hand statements, you don't absolutely need the victim to testify, but you do need someone who actually saw the assault take place who is willing to at least make a statement. Again, perhaps the sheriff could have tried harder to fabricate a case, but do we really want a world where law enforcement pressures unwilling witnesses to make statements which may or may not be true? Once law enforcement starts pressuring "witnesses" people will eventually just tell them whatever they want to hear.
It is also hard to take the article itself seriously when it begins with the oxymoron "high-powered assault rifle" which, by definition, cannot exist, and no assault rifle was used in this crime.
The Sheriff was 100% correct in his statement: "I was trying to figure out how to skin this cat from a different direction," Skolfield told the commission in January. "I can't make him come out, I can't make him answer the door, I can't make him talk to me. But at the same time I can't go barging into his trailer because he has 4th Amendment issues against search-and-seizure. He hasn't committed a crime." In retrospect, the Sheriff could and probably should have done more, such as accompanying a family member to visit him, but contrary to the dreams of some people, we do still live in a country where individuals still have rights and where legal process is not supposed to be based on third-hand reports about what someone else thinks. "John told me Mike said he thinks Bill might be dangerous" is not supposed to be enough to deprive someone of their liberty or property.
Similarly the report says "Finally, the commission finds that there is a misperception among some law enforcement officers, including Sgt. Skolfield, that they need to have a victim 'press charges' to bring a case to the prosecutor's office," reads the report. "This is simply wrong. It is the prosecutor, acting on behalf of the citizens of Maine, who brings the charges but a prosecutor can only act when those charged with investigating crimes, i.e., law enforcement officers, follow through with their investigations." This statement is legally true, but it ignores the fact that law enforcement needs probable cause. You can't just arrest an individual for "assault" because of third-hand statements, you don't absolutely need the victim to testify, but you do need someone who actually saw the assault take place who is willing to at least make a statement. Again, perhaps the sheriff could have tried harder to fabricate a case, but do we really want a world where law enforcement pressures unwilling witnesses to make statements which may or may not be true? Once law enforcement starts pressuring "witnesses" people will eventually just tell them whatever they want to hear.
It is also hard to take the article itself seriously when it begins with the oxymoron "high-powered assault rifle" which, by definition, cannot exist, and no assault rifle was used in this crime.
(1)
(0)
SGT Stephen Rowland
Great explanation for a complicated situation. HIPPA laws hide so much when dealing with mental illness. I would like to know what the Army knew and why they abdicated their responsibility to Sergeant Card.
(0)
(0)
MSG Thomas Currie
SGT Stephen Rowland - This seems to be one of those situations where IN RETROSPECT everyone should have done more, but at the time each person and agency involved thought they had done something and that someone else was going to follow-up.
It's not surprising that the reserve unit passed the buck to local law enforcement. The Army really has no power over reservists except during drills or active duty, so local law enforcement would be the people with the power to actually do something. The Sheriff thought the family was taking care of getting his weapons, but failed to follow up to make sure that happened.
One problem throughout all of this, and other similar cases, is the assumption that removing firearms from someone who MIGHT be a danger to self or others is a quick and easy solution that fixes everything. It shouldn't be an easy thing to do and it really doesn't fix anything. If someone wants to commit suicide, murder, or both, taking away their firearms isn't really a solution - at best it changes HOW they will do something dangerous.
It's not surprising that the reserve unit passed the buck to local law enforcement. The Army really has no power over reservists except during drills or active duty, so local law enforcement would be the people with the power to actually do something. The Sheriff thought the family was taking care of getting his weapons, but failed to follow up to make sure that happened.
One problem throughout all of this, and other similar cases, is the assumption that removing firearms from someone who MIGHT be a danger to self or others is a quick and easy solution that fixes everything. It shouldn't be an easy thing to do and it really doesn't fix anything. If someone wants to commit suicide, murder, or both, taking away their firearms isn't really a solution - at best it changes HOW they will do something dangerous.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next