Should a Misdemeanor End Your Second Amendment Rights?

Cpl Benjamin Long - The problem, IMHO, with the 8th Amendment is that it is TOO subjective. What constitutes an "excessive" bail or fine? Does it matter how wealthy the Defendant is? Does it matter what the severity of the crime is? Should it?

Don't know, don't know, don't know, and don't know. It is up to the courts - the very same courts deciding the bails and fines - to decide how much is too much.

SFC Casey O'Mally Supreme court would decide what it means

Cpl Benjamin Long - Only if it makes it to them - and they take it up.

SFC Casey O'Mally well those who have million dollars to blow can indulge in such endeavors... What was I saying about excessive bail and fines... I sense a correlation within...

I completely agree. TN Law says otherwise. I went in to treatment for substance abuse. Getting the permit back was just a case of going in and renewing it though, I didn't have to start from zero.

You can spend a million dollars to sue for an injection that would ultimately break you even

Cpl Benjamin Long Injunction*

Why is the number of firearms a person owns relevant?
_I have (2) .410 shotgun for pest-control (small rodents) around my farm and small game birds, personal use and grandkids hunting. When they are shooting, I am the unarmed safety observer.
_I have a 20-gauge shotgun for small game for hunting non-waterfowl birds
_I have a 12-gauge shotgun for large game (deer, feral pig) and waterfowl and wild turkey.
_I have (2) .22 long rifle for varmint control (fox, coyote, raccoons, opossum, skunk, mink, weasel and martin) around my farm and wild game (rabbit) for me or my grandkids
_I Have a .30-06 bolt action for large game (deer, elk, feral pig, bear)
_I have (2) .22 revolvers for teaching my grandkids proper firearm safety, weapons handling and target shooting
_I have a .38 revolver for Coup Degrace on small livestock (goats, sheep, suckling pig) being culled because of injury, disease, or meat.
_I have a .45 revolver for Coup Degrace on large livestock and large game (elk, bear, feral pig)
_I have a .50 muzzle loader for muzzle loader hunting season
_I also have 2 revolvers, a lever action rifle and a double barrel shotgun for Cowboy Action Shooting competitions.

I do not consider myself a gun nut, any more than a person who has multiple hammers in their tool chest is a hammer nut. I have 17 types of hammers and mallets. Just like my firearms, each has its appropriate purpose and is not necessarily suited to some other purpose.

What firearms should I give up? and why?

There should be as many firearms in America as a person needs, plus whatever else they want. My experience is that most firearms that people own have practical purposes, or they are "exotics" that are collector items that are impractical for common use because of purpose or cost.

Maj John Bell - Respectfully, your experience is not that of many other gun owners in America. Your weapons seem to be tools, as were most firearms for many years in America for farmers, ranchers and hunters. before guns became glamorized. Before they became fetishized. They're not a fashion statement for you. They're not some kind of accessory or lifestyle statement. They're not merely a political statement. Your guns weren't purchased because they "look cool." And I didn't see you say that any of your inventory were for "self defense" or "home defense" - which, are perfectly legitimate reasons, as long as you're not driven to it because of an abiding fear of your neighbors or other Americans, as so many Americans seem to be. You are not an ordinary gun owner sir, you are out of the ordinary.

COL John McClellan - I live in a rural community. Because I'm active in the community I rarely see a face I don't know and who does not know me. I don't think in terms of self-defense, but I'm always armed when I leave the house. I think it is more likely that I'll be hit by lightning than I'll need a firearm for self-defense or defense of others. That said, I have a concealed carry permit. Even on the farm, I carry concealed because many people are uncomfortable with someone practicing open carry. If I'm going someplace where I cannot legally carry a firearm, it goes in the gun safe in my truck, as soon as I hit the parking lot.

I carry because, legal or not, if I see an animal suffering, I'm going to put it down. (In Michigan, for the most part it is not legal.) My first choice, if safety allows, is a good sharp knife I carry. Legally I cannot use a firearm to administer the coup de grace, unless it is my animal on my property. I don't care. But I know most of the Sheriff's deputies and the patrol officers from the surrounding villages and townships. They know what I do. We just don't talk about it if they show up and I've already dispatched the animal.

You're right. I view firearms as tools. But I don't fault people who have them for purely recreational purposes. Different strokes for different folks. I don't think of firearms as recreational, except for cowboy action shooting. Honestly, I could do without the shooting, but I like the post-range "hootenannies." There is a lot of striking heroic poses, telling great lies, cowboy poetry and meat cooked over an open fire. You kind of have to shoot to fit in.

I still don't understand the relevance of how many or what types of firearms a law-abiding person has? I don't think there is a thing in the world wrong with a law-abiding citizen having as many firearms as they want, for any reason they want [including "cool"] as long as they don't let the hobby get in the way of taking care of their family.

The relevance is not in how many guns any one gun owners has, although - a 2017 survey indicates that only about 30% of us own a gun, and only 8% of owners have 10 or more. The relevance is when you have reached or surpassed a "tipping point" [re: Malcolm Gladwell's work] whereby gun sales and gun ownership are so pervasive as to constitute a heightened threat to all citizens. We have 120 guns per 100 people in the USA - more than double the next highest country, and staggeringly higher than most Nations. As a result we have the most gun violence in the world, by far. I don't know where that tipping point is - no one can say for sure. But we are certainly past it when for example, people are shooting their fellow citizens for accidently turning up the wrong driveway because they were lost; or for absent-mindedly opening the car door of the wrong car; or for walking up to a house and just ringing the doorbell. These instances are extremely rare to 0, in most of the rest of the world. We had 3 in just one week - and those just being the ones that gained national attention. In 2021, the TSA had to confiscate almost 5,800 guns at airport checkpoints. 85% of these were loaded! 37% of gunshot injuries in the U.S. are the result of accidental shootings. More than 500 Americans were killed in 2021 due to accidental discharges. And then there's the almost 13,000 guns stolen (2020 data) in America. That number is only those actually reported to the ATF. The real number is clearly much, much higher than that. How many murders were committed with those legal purchased, stolen weapons?? How many are stolen right out of parked cars, and then used in the commission of a crime? There are simply too many guns, period. Other "people's hobbies" have now created an environment that is getting our citizens killed. 20,138 Americans, in 2022. (That's NOT including suicides - another 24,292.) There were 64 cops killed in the line-of-duty by gunfire in 2022 (of 245 overall.) 1,060 Americans shot and killed BY cops. Where does it end?