Posted on Aug 20, 2020
Two-star Army general suspended amid investigation into alleged mishandling of sexual assault...
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Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 5
The article in which the comments were made is incorrect to a certain extent. Military policemen here. Investigator. Army regulations for sexual assault allow for the victim to proceed with a restricted or anonymous investigation wherein it stays within the units chain of command. The complaint may be made to a healthcare provider, a sexual harassment counselor, a superior, or even a third party can come forward which automatically triggers an investigation. It's only if the victim wants an unrestricted investigation that it goes to CID for investigation.
An AR 15-6 investigation of facts is not a criminal investigation. It gathers the facts. It may lead to criminal charges in which an article 32 hearing is held which is as some of you may know a preliminary hearing to determine whether or not probable cause exists to move forward with prosecution.
Durbin & Duckworth, both loudmouth Democrats compared to loudmouth Republicans, are just grandstanding. How is it that two investigations in particular came out against this Major General? Who went looking for the information and why? Did one victim come out and make allegations that her charges were inadequately investigated? Did she want a restricted or unrestricted investigation? If you chose a restricted investigation and did not like the results of it did she then come forward and make allegations against the General? The same question applies to the second alleged victim.
Details Matter. If I were this Major General I think I'd pull the pin and just retire. Of course she may be called back to service to be prosecuted but at this point she's only on a 15-6. Who wants her job? These two allegations just didn't pop up out of nowhere and for nothing.
An AR 15-6 investigation of facts is not a criminal investigation. It gathers the facts. It may lead to criminal charges in which an article 32 hearing is held which is as some of you may know a preliminary hearing to determine whether or not probable cause exists to move forward with prosecution.
Durbin & Duckworth, both loudmouth Democrats compared to loudmouth Republicans, are just grandstanding. How is it that two investigations in particular came out against this Major General? Who went looking for the information and why? Did one victim come out and make allegations that her charges were inadequately investigated? Did she want a restricted or unrestricted investigation? If you chose a restricted investigation and did not like the results of it did she then come forward and make allegations against the General? The same question applies to the second alleged victim.
Details Matter. If I were this Major General I think I'd pull the pin and just retire. Of course she may be called back to service to be prosecuted but at this point she's only on a 15-6. Who wants her job? These two allegations just didn't pop up out of nowhere and for nothing.
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MAJ James Woods
And there lies the problem, the chain of command was notified on two separate allegations; thus, neither were restricted reporting. Law enforcement should’ve been notified for an official criminal investigation not a fact finding 15-6.
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MAJ James Woods
Let me also add, one can argue a third party reporting the incident to chain of command depends on who the third party was and did they have the permission of the victim.
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SSG Robert Ricci
MAJ James Woods a 15-6 and a report to the MCIO can occur concurrently. That's not quite how it happened sir but close enough. The SAPR Victim Advocate should have notified the MCIO and it would not have been at the unit level necessarily. No matter what however the unit commander had a requirement to notify the MCIO so that they could register a report of an incident. At that point the alleged victim they remain anonymous, restricted, or unrestricted. We don't know the exact facts regarding this MG and I think we're all assuming facts not in evidence to us. It's best to wait and see how this fleshes out. We don't even know how it got his high as an MG. Speculating now, being a reserve unit was the MG trying to keep it in-house? I can't see that happening. Not being some rinky-dink airport cop claiming 20 years of sophisticated police work and one that actually has a 40 year career I see this a little bit differently. LAPD has strict reporting requirements and mandatory arrests if the suspect is known. Domestic violence is it something not screwed around with. Rape on the other hand, that's a biggie. Especially if it's date rape or a friend. We'll see what comes out of this. No sense arguing about it. Not you Major.
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SSG Robert Ricci
MAJ James Woods that's an interesting question sir. I don't have an answer for that. I would think that the third party could come forward through the chain of command without the permission of the victim. Here's what the regulation States:
The Secretary of Defense ensure that a victim of sexual assault reserves the right to make a restricted report despite disclosing to a third party. Victims would lose this right only if they disclose to their direct chain of command or law enforcement, or information regarding the
assault independently reaches the chain of command or law enforcement.
This suggests that if a third-party reports it without permission the victim does not have an immediate right to an unrestricted investigation. That's because the independently disclosed to a third party.
The Secretary of Defense ensure that a victim of sexual assault reserves the right to make a restricted report despite disclosing to a third party. Victims would lose this right only if they disclose to their direct chain of command or law enforcement, or information regarding the
assault independently reaches the chain of command or law enforcement.
This suggests that if a third-party reports it without permission the victim does not have an immediate right to an unrestricted investigation. That's because the independently disclosed to a third party.
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Lot of things to consider that are missing from the article. It’s a Reserve unit so did this happen while on duty, like are they AGR? Or did it happen between drill periods? If AGR then yes CID could eventually have jurisdiction- once 15-6 determines criminal act. If it was between drill duties then local police have jurisdiction. So a lot of conclusions and any time Ducksorth gets involved you know the military will come out with a black eye no matter if it is deserved or not- she is a terrible former Soldier.
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SSG Robert Ricci
You are absolutely correct Colonel except I would refer you to. Sexual assault instructions under DOD 5505.18. It makes a clear distinction between a restricted complaint and an unrestricted complaint as well as an anonymous complaint. It's only if it goes as an unrestricted complaint to CID.
You're also absolutely correct that one has to First determine whether the individuals involved that perpetrated an alleged sexual assault did so during National Guard service on their weekend drills or any other official meeting of the unit. Otherwise as you correctly say it's a matter for the local police to handle. If this were active duty military of course it's a different story. Thank you for your common sense information.
You're also absolutely correct that one has to First determine whether the individuals involved that perpetrated an alleged sexual assault did so during National Guard service on their weekend drills or any other official meeting of the unit. Otherwise as you correctly say it's a matter for the local police to handle. If this were active duty military of course it's a different story. Thank you for your common sense information.
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SSG Robert Ricci
Capt Gregory Prickett I find it amusing that an Air Force Reserve officer would argue with a military police investigator. Per the instructions of DODI 5505.18 a report of the incident is transmitted to the MCIO. That is CID. REPORTING of the incident to CID and ASSIGNMENT for investigation to CID are separate and distinct. It is the victim's decision whether or not they want to remain anonymous. If they are anonymous CID has no one as a victim to gather information from and investigate. The individual may also request a restricted investigation that restricts the investigation and fact gathering to the unit chain of command. The victim also has a choice of an unrestricted investigation at which time it becomes a CID matter. This is spelled out in the preceding instructions of DODI 5505.18. It surprises me that you don't recognize that this is a lower directive number than 6495.02. 5505.18 gives clear step-by-step instructions on what the Command Staff of the unit needs to do. Nothing has been said regarding information being given to CID but there's an expression in law enforcement. No victim, no crime. It would simply go into the sexual offense database that an incident involving a particular service member is alleged to have occurred but that there was no victim willing to come forward. I don't expect that you've actually responded to such a call. Company grade officers push a desk. Investigators do the work. Under a similar section domestic violence investigations fall under similar rules. When is the last time you responded to a domestic violence call in progress? Did you know that military police investigators respond to domestic violence calls in progress? Uniform Patrol respond that are quickly replaced by military police investigators. The point is is that the actual workflow is not necessarily as in the order that you're expecting. Making a report to the MCIO is not the same as conducting an investigation. What if the victim reports to a sexual harassment counselor within his or her unit? Do you understand that the victim they remain anonymous? Do you understand that some victims are embarrassed and don't want to go public? CID cannot force them to because then you have a hostile victim. Do you understand this Captain? Or would you prefer to keep your head buried in the regulations without understanding the workflow? I'll tell you that it really twerks me when officers do this that are not trained in the application of the regulations. What's the difference between an E-5 and an O-1? The E-5 has been promoted four times already. Which one are you going to ask advice of? Good officers know the difference. One of my favorite officers was second Lieutenant Perkins. Good people. As a young Lieutenant he worked in S1. He never went on patrol. He would ask advice of enlisted men or women when appropriate. On the other hand I had a first lieutenant it was a complete horse's ass. He decided to Ride Along on a parking complaint with an E-5 that it just come in out of a field. E-5 was arguing getting a citation for prohibited parking. Instead of letting his trained traffic officers issue the citation and leave he decided he wanted to pull rank on the E-5 and ordered him taken into custody. You get the point? Arrest a Sergeant over a parking violation and potentially harm his career just because he had Lieutenant bars on his collar. That's what we call an officer that doesn't know his butt from a hole in the wall. With no field experience he unnecessarily escalated a situation to the point of making an apprehension. There are those that do and there are those that watch it being done. Capisce? Admittedly this is not the same as a sexual assault allegation. But it does reflect the actual application of the process. This article does not State whether or not the general reported allegations to the MCIO but that she handled it within the unit structure. This is permitted under 5505.18.
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SSG Brian G.
https://www.sexualassault.army.mil/policy_restricted.aspx
This from the Army website would clearly indicate that once again Capt Gregory Prickett is WRONG. He loves to throw around that he is a lawyer.
Here I will quote the relevant parts from the Army page on Sexual assault reporting.
Restricted reporting does NOT trigger CID involvement
"Sexual assault victims who want to confidentially disclose a sexual assault without triggering an official investigation can contact a SARC/SHARP Specialist, VA/SHARP Specialist, or a healthcare provider. By filing a restricted report with a SARC/SHARP Specialist, VA/SHARP Specialist, or a healthcare provider, a victim can disclose the sexual assault without triggering an official investigation and receive medical treatment, advocacy services, legal assistance, and counseling.
Victim conversations with a SARC/SHARP Specialist or VA/SHARP Specialist about the sexual assault are confidential communications, not to be disclosed to others, including law enforcement or the chain of command, except in a few very rare circumstances."
Unrestricted reporting however, DOES trigger it.
You can argue with the Army on it and pretty sure the Air Force mirrors this.
And oh wow, look at that... the Air Force MIRRORS exactly what the Army says, imagine that.
https://www.airforcemomsbmt.org/Sexual%20Harassment%20Info.htm
This from the Army website would clearly indicate that once again Capt Gregory Prickett is WRONG. He loves to throw around that he is a lawyer.
Here I will quote the relevant parts from the Army page on Sexual assault reporting.
Restricted reporting does NOT trigger CID involvement
"Sexual assault victims who want to confidentially disclose a sexual assault without triggering an official investigation can contact a SARC/SHARP Specialist, VA/SHARP Specialist, or a healthcare provider. By filing a restricted report with a SARC/SHARP Specialist, VA/SHARP Specialist, or a healthcare provider, a victim can disclose the sexual assault without triggering an official investigation and receive medical treatment, advocacy services, legal assistance, and counseling.
Victim conversations with a SARC/SHARP Specialist or VA/SHARP Specialist about the sexual assault are confidential communications, not to be disclosed to others, including law enforcement or the chain of command, except in a few very rare circumstances."
Unrestricted reporting however, DOES trigger it.
You can argue with the Army on it and pretty sure the Air Force mirrors this.
And oh wow, look at that... the Air Force MIRRORS exactly what the Army says, imagine that.
https://www.airforcemomsbmt.org/Sexual%20Harassment%20Info.htm
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MAJ James Woods
If it was to be treated as a civilian matter then chain of command has no business initiating a 15-6 and we should be asking when or why not call local police? Yes not a detailed article.
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My concern is that sexual assault or misconduct may be swept under the rug. Generals do make mistakes and commit misconduct. I know because my commander of the 24th Infantry was relieved for misappropriation of government property.
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LTC Thomas Tennant
Understand your concern. BUT in this case there was no sweeping under the rug of the inappropriate conduct. The investigation was being conducted but the press ran a story about the case and it appears that the two senators are now making political hay.
Here I think people need manage the expectations; the Reserves and National Guard only meet once a month for "battle assembly" aka "drill." and given the geographic dispersion of units it is almost impossible to all the key parties together to conduct an investigation.
Here I think people need manage the expectations; the Reserves and National Guard only meet once a month for "battle assembly" aka "drill." and given the geographic dispersion of units it is almost impossible to all the key parties together to conduct an investigation.
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