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CSM Charles Hayden
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Unions, both Teachers and Police, hold the power of the purse over politicians who should enact needed legislation.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
MAJ Byron Oyler
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CWO3 (Join to see) - The communities want involvement, so lets make that happen. Atlanta needs to speak if they are comfortable with someone intoxicated stealing a police taser and running off with it. Are they ok if the police find an intoxicated person behind the wheel to just call a friend and not get charged with DUI as the law stands? Once communities decide what they are comfortable with the police letting go then we change deadly force laws. I very much see an intoxicated person that attacked the police and was running off with a taser a threat to society but the Mayor of Atlanta does not. Her city, her rules however she needs to make them laws and if these people hurt other people because the PD released them, PD should not be held accountable.
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
>1 y
MAJ Byron Oyler - The question is about the use of deadly force, not whether or not letting the intoxicated person flee police with an officer's taser. The presumption you're making is the two officer's didn't have the ability or option to pursue and tackle the fleeing suspect without using deadly force. And since they had his vehicle and ID, they knew where he lived. Not to mention, there's a claim the 2nd officer attempted to use his taser on the fleeing suspect prior to the 1st officer shooting. Not to mention, the claim the 1st officer used taser on suspect during struggle and missed then suspect supposedly fired taser while fleeing; thus, now suggesting the suspect is unarmed as the taser is now worthless. Yeah there are a lot of things that happened during this escalation of events that a grand jury will have to determine was deadly force really justified. Especially when GA law says a taser is considered a deadly firearm; I'm assuming when it's in the hands of a suspect and not law enforcement. Deadly force is supposed to a last resort or in case of imminent threat of death.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
MAJ Byron Oyler
>1 y
MAJ James Woods - You are right, they had everything they needed to find him later however when the subject of a manhunt, people panic and do bad things to avoid capture. How would Mr. Brooks reacted to the citizens in that area once the helicopters were overhead and the streets filled with police? The locals need to look at when something like this happens, at what level is it ok to just let someone go and when do they represent a risk to that community. He had already driven intoxicated to Wendy's and was every bit guilty of that but many are saying the police should have just let someone come pick him up. Make that legal and there you go although I doubt Mother's Against Drunk Driving would agree.
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
>1 y
MAJ Byron Oyler - Stop using the phrase "let him go". We're talking about him successfully fleeing the scene and ability of cops to subdue with non-lethal force. They knew he was no longer armed after he fired the taser. Call for back up. Issue a BOLO. Warn the surrounding neighborhoods. Assume he's going to his sister's home that he said was nearby so start there. Are we going to start justifying deadly force for all unarmed (again taser was no longer a threat) fleeing suspects now? We're talking about criminal suspects not ROE for combatants in a war zone.
Here's a thought since you mentioned M.A.D.D. De-escalate by saying, okay, we'll take you to your sister's home. Get him in the vehicle. Then drive to the station. Two cops inability to subdue one man that wasn't that much bigger than them is also problematic. Other law enforcement experts and former police officers have made the similar points.
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LTC Eugene Chu
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Database and grants may help, but a separate problem is that some departments can still re-hire "bad apples". Pasting story of how Philadelphia law enforcement had to take back officers that had previously been fired

https://www.inquirer.com/news/a/philadelphia-police-problem-union-misconduct-secret-20190912.html
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
>1 y
Yep. Which is why this idea of a federal database to document police misconduct incidents mentioned in the Trump EO and again in both congressional police reform bills is only a good idea if government actually enforces it's usage as a source for all hiring practices. It won't be; let alone it depends heavily on law enforcement leaders to actually open up misconduct investigations and then input the info into the database. There's a story out there that the one Atlanta officer was part of another shooting involving a car thief. The officers involved in that shooting failed to put in their report that the collapsed lung injury sustained by suspect was a result of being shot by cops. How does that get left out an official police report? Will be interesting to see if this reporting is true or exaggerated.

https://www.apmreports.org/story/2020/06/17/officer-garrett-rolfe-atlanta-shooting
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MAJ Byron Oyler
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Regardless who is in the WH, Congress needs to do their job and if they do not like the President, legislate his EO out. We the people are part of that problem as Tulsi Gabbard caught hell for voting present during the impeachment and Romney similar hell. We should be encouraging free thought, not party alignment thought.
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
>1 y
In otherwords, the exact scenario when an Obama Admin. had to deal with 6 years of a GOP controlled Congress that refused to legislate to solve issues. I agree. A president should push out EOs and then campaign on those EOs to put pressure on Congress to do their job of finding bipartisan solutions.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
MAJ Byron Oyler
>1 y
MAJ James Woods - We have allowed Congress to become a lifetime job with new job application every two or six years and rather than do the hard right thing, they do what will keep them in a job. Until Congress grows up and matures, EOs are going to be the future. I am not a fan of the Supreme Court ruling on DACA as if it was President Obama's right to write it, it should be President Trump's right to get rid of it. Married to an immigrant and living in El Paso, things do need changing but by Congress.
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
>1 y
I live in Las Cruces and have worked in El Paso for a few years. I've come to realize illegal immigration only becomes a talking point when it impacts immigrant businesses; otherwise, the SouthWest populace has enjoyed the cheap labor from TX to California.
Yeah DACA was an EO that had time constraints as to who can apply (thus impacting only a small population that could've applied) and it's conditions based to retain the designation. The law was being enforced. There is zero reason to suddenly rescind outright for the sake of satisfying the anti-immigrant factions in this country. Disagree with the domestic policy but it was meant to rectify an issue of accountability. All those children now adults are either contributing back to the country and community or are committing felony crime and being deported for breach of DACA guidelines. Win-win! As opposed to a generic EO banning Muslim travel from a list of select countries that don't even have the countries that actually physically committed terrorist attacks on US soil on the list (I'm looking at you, Saudi Arabia). Bush, Obama, and Trump have all equally failed at holding that terror state country accountable for the extremism that exists in their borders. Instead we reward them with defense sales and enabling their proxy wars. Our government needs fixing.
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