Posted on Jan 23, 2019
At Least 5 Dead In Shooting At Central Florida Bank; Suspect In Custody
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Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 3
SGT (Join to see), you raise some pretty good questions.
I’ve served on a civilian police department’s SRT (SWAT) Team for a few years, and the train of thought in your question relating to negotiating seems worth revisiting.
It’s basically a law enforcement playbook that has followed the same premise for decades now.
I was not so far involved that the command and control decision making guidelines were a part of my immediate knowledge, but I can tell you every op involving barricaded suspects were the same. Maybe there is an angle in there somewhere that has not been explored which might end the situation sooner.
I got no idea of whether or not there is, but you have gotten me to thinking that most criminals in that situation may very well know the LEO’s playbook and exploit that to kill or injure more people during negotiations.
Additionally, I think your theory regarding politicians is spot on.
Strength and Honor!
I’ve served on a civilian police department’s SRT (SWAT) Team for a few years, and the train of thought in your question relating to negotiating seems worth revisiting.
It’s basically a law enforcement playbook that has followed the same premise for decades now.
I was not so far involved that the command and control decision making guidelines were a part of my immediate knowledge, but I can tell you every op involving barricaded suspects were the same. Maybe there is an angle in there somewhere that has not been explored which might end the situation sooner.
I got no idea of whether or not there is, but you have gotten me to thinking that most criminals in that situation may very well know the LEO’s playbook and exploit that to kill or injure more people during negotiations.
Additionally, I think your theory regarding politicians is spot on.
Strength and Honor!
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SGT (Join to see)
If there is no immediate threat to other people, then my thinking is that the safest, most conservative (in terms of risk) approach makes the most sense. I'm specifically thinking about any situation (from police matters all the way up to much bigger (in terms of number of people and size of the geographical area) military situations even at a strategic scale), but any situation in which there is an immediate threat from a bad actor of some sort. My thinking is that every moment that you leave the bad actor the opportunity to inflict that harm is a severe risk. If my thinking is correct, then I would favor much more emphasis on developing ways to incapacitate such an enemy/adversary - from the police being able to stop a barricaded suspect who is an immediate threat to others, all the way up the scale to our military's realistic capabilities for destroying a rogue nation's nuclear arsenal in a very, very short period of time and in such a way that the enemy would have difficulty bringing it to bear against us or anyone else.
In the past, with regard to police, I have heard and read the same mantra over and over again, and it has never made logical sense. I think they've got it wrong - but that's never been a specific thing I worked on for a living, so I'm just Joe Concerned Citizen looking at it all from my living room - but I'm still convinced that they've got it wrong.
In the past, with regard to police, I have heard and read the same mantra over and over again, and it has never made logical sense. I think they've got it wrong - but that's never been a specific thing I worked on for a living, so I'm just Joe Concerned Citizen looking at it all from my living room - but I'm still convinced that they've got it wrong.
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I am more about getting rid of the threat while it seems they want the "suspect" who is clearly guilty to have a conversation with him.
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SGT (Join to see)
If there are casualties, it seems to me that there is no time to spend on trying resolve the situation without confrontation. I think one needs to prioritize getting those casualties out.
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SGT (Join to see) You bring up some interesting points. I whole heatedly agree with your comment about politicians. When a situation like this happens, I wonder why we do not employ other tools to subdue the criminals. Remember the hostage situation in the opera house in Russia several years ago, they used a gas to subdue the situation and were able to take over the situation without firing a shot.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yes, and lots of civilians paid the price. I'll leave the implementation details to those that would do the implementation. I'm thinking about what more than how.
Perhaps a better example than the news story I linked to here would be the situation that existed on a bus in Rio covered in the (long) documentary Bus 174: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_174
The documentary talks about a lot of issues (more societal than anything) but it does address decisionmaking by government and interviews the police involved and it appears to have been a situation that could have been resolved decisively early on.
Perhaps a better example than the news story I linked to here would be the situation that existed on a bus in Rio covered in the (long) documentary Bus 174: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_174
The documentary talks about a lot of issues (more societal than anything) but it does address decisionmaking by government and interviews the police involved and it appears to have been a situation that could have been resolved decisively early on.
Bus 174 (Portuguese: Ônibus 174) is a Brazilian documentary film released on October 22, 2002. It is the debut film of director José Padilha and co-director Felipe Lacerda. In 2000, Sandro do Nascimento, a young man from a poor background, held passengers on a bus hostage for four hours. The event was caught live on television. The movie examines the incident and what life is like in the slums and favelas of Rio de Janeiro and how the criminal...
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