Second woman on track to graduate the Corps’ Infantry Officer Course may be your next recon...

I am with you on most points, MSG. I credit a good NCO to my initial success as a butter bar Platoon Leader, even though I had done five years enlisted prior to OCS. I believe that women warriors would do best with other women warriors. We separate females from males for competitive sports at around 12-13 years old, and keep them separate through high school, college and professional competitive sports. There is a reason for that: men and women are different. Mentally, physically, psychologically, we are different. We have integrated other branches somewhat successfully. I say somewhat because we will never know the extent of sexual harassment, sexual assault and sexual abuse in the military. We all know it exists, and it exists because of integration. We're looking at HUGE problems in the Boy Scouts down the road with sleepovers in the woods with adolescent boys and girls. You eliminate so many unnecessary practical issues if you have segregated combat arms. It just makes sense. Integration works best in MP and medical units I've been in. These are jobs that are fully accessible to women in civilian life. There really is no civilian equivalent to infantryman/woman, nor should there be. I do believe that segregated units could be effective. In fact, as long as standards aren't changed, I would bet money on all female combat arms out performing all male similar units from time-to-time. Hooah!

MAJ Montgomery Granger - Re: Out performing, it depends on too many factors to conclude that happening. I believed it has to be proven before making an assumption. It would take a very long time to create women's combat teams. This is due to a selection process that sets standards . I think woment and men together in a combat environment is a PC experiment that would fail. I think I read a female rager student got pregnant during the course. Who in their right mind thought this would not happen? I once was a controller of a medical unit back in the seventies. I will not repeat what went on in the tents and foxholes at night in a mixed unit.

I hear you and agree with some of what you say, especially with regard to integrated units. There will always be natural normal behavior between males and females, and once that behavior affects mission readiness it needs to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. Putting women in combat arms without men would sweep away a lot of that, especially pregnancy within the unit. The bottom line is performance. Could all female combat arms units out perform similar male units? You want to motivate a group of hard charging female soldiers? Tell them they will be competing against all male units. My money would be on the girls. BUT, you need to let them design their own equipment, supplies, weapons and uniforms for a start. Let the best-of-the-best female military put it together. Look out!

MSG Mathers. Ranger tab. Nov ' 66. The last thing I needed on the battlefield was someone's Mother , Grandaughter or Wife. As for the " modern " Ranger school with girls, in my day there were NO RECYCLES except for medical. You got ONE shot at the tab, that's it. Only the BEST of the BEST earned the tab. How many times were the first women Recycled? TWICE, THREE times!!! Imagine if baseball changed the rules where the batter was now allowed 4 balls and 4 STRIKES instead of 3. Result; higher batting averages, more hits. More homeruns . You get the idea. The rules were changed to make it easier for the batter. Apparently the Army is more concerned with " Gender Diversity " than with Quality. I had great admiration and respect for the nurses at
BINH THUY. Even under mortar attack they performed their jobs well. As you should know MSG , infantry ground combat is a whole other dirty, cruel , barbaric world.
No place for amateurs. Ranger Inf Advisor South Vietnamese Army. 1968 - 1969

Wow! I remember my body armor weighing only 35 lbs. They must've added more lead or something. I served with many female MP's in the Big Sand Box, all of them with their vests with plates, basic load and full battle-rattle. Not one complaint, not one eyelash batted. You have some serious women out there. They don't play and they seriously will ruin your day if you're a bad guy. Think about all those years when women were integrated into almost every unit except combat arms. Where do you think most of the hard chargers ended up? That's right, the MP's. That was the combat loop hole. The Army knew it. It worked out just fine. As for Rangers, 82nd ABN, et. al., I agree it's a different animal, but hey, like I've said, let them train, eat, sleep, design their own equipment, weapons, supplies and uniforms together as a segregated force (remember, many other countries have done and do this successfully) and then see what you get. It's better than pregnant troops.

I never said women “couldn’t” handle combat. My arguement is against the changing of training in order to accommodate their success. As for weight, basic load is just that...basic. We carried 3x the amount of ammo, extra radio batteries, medical, food and water. What you had on you is all you had for a lot of our patrols. As for pregnancy, look up the recent Ranger school story. If you put men and women in the same unit, regardless of type, you’re going to have pregnancies. Great conversation though.

Maj George. I WILL say it. The last thing I needed on the battlefield was someone's Mother , Grandaughter or Wife. I saw what the VC, MainForce and NVA did to our GIS and ARVN troops. You have to be out of your mind or a sadist to expose our women to that barbarity. Ranger tab. Nov. ' 66. Ranger Inf Advisor South Vietnamese Army
1968 - 1969

MAJ Montgomery Granger - As armed contractor in Iraq, ours weighed 55 pounds, Dragon Skin, that was just the vest. Add an M4 and a Glock 19 and mags was standaerd load. I would havre loved a 35 pound vest!