Posted on Apr 12, 2016
2 Soldiers Get Vastly Different Sentences for Deadly Crimes
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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/11/2-soldiers-get-vastly-different-sentences-deadly-crimes.html?comp= [login to see] 425&rank=1
Two soldiers from the same Joint Base Lewis-McChord infantry battalion experienced two very different kinds of justice when they came home from training events a year apart and carried out deadly crimes.
One Soldier used military assigned defense and an Army court, his sentence is twice as long as the sentence for another soldier who used a private defense attorney and the civilian court system.
Two soldiers from the same Joint Base Lewis-McChord infantry battalion experienced two very different kinds of justice when they came home from training events a year apart and carried out deadly crimes.
One Soldier used military assigned defense and an Army court, his sentence is twice as long as the sentence for another soldier who used a private defense attorney and the civilian court system.
2 Soldiers Get Vastly Different Sentences for Deadly Crimes
Posted from military.com
Justice
Soldiers
Law
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
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CPT (Join to see) This article attempts to paint the picture of disparate treatment between people who are in the military justice system and those in a civilian system by comparing two distinctly different crimes. It alleges that the military is more harsh or that the defense is less capable, or both, which, in my opinion is BS.
So a soldier who stabs another in the heart with a knife gets a more harsh sentence than a soldier who "accidently" shoots his spouse in the head with a rifle. Does that really surprise anybody? I think that, even if both crimes had been tried in the military system or in the civilian system, a very similar outcome would have resulted.
The whole article is BS to me...
So a soldier who stabs another in the heart with a knife gets a more harsh sentence than a soldier who "accidently" shoots his spouse in the head with a rifle. Does that really surprise anybody? I think that, even if both crimes had been tried in the military system or in the civilian system, a very similar outcome would have resulted.
The whole article is BS to me...
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Capt Lance Gallardo
COL Jean (John) F. B. - I definitely can not say that about a majority of civilian attorney, Sir. On that one, we are definitely on the same page. Maybe it is that Marine Corps "expeditionary spirit in me" but if the cause is just, and I believe in the client, I am prepared to sacrifice my health, my time, my family up to a certain extent, sleep in my office, do whatever is required within reason and ethical guidelines, to advocate for and fight for a client. In short, I win cases by out hustling the other side, AKA working harder than the other side. Its in my fitness reports, and that has never left me.
Maybe all lawyers should have to eat the mud and the dirt and live hard in the field, without a shower for some time, under stress, and lack of sleep, like you did in Ranger School and I did as a Student Lt. at The Basic School, in Quantico, VA and you realize there is not much you are NOT capable of doing in the way of physical exertion, endurance, and effort in general, if the mission is important enough. I don't see that spirit in many attorneys I meet and have met. Maybe ten percent or less.
I still have that mentality, when I go to the range, stock up on survival food for my family in the event of a natural disaster or WMD attack, have cold weather clothing available for myself and my family, the list is endless, ammo, water, weapons, but it is that mentality that you either get or develop from good combat training or experiences that never leaves you, and you are prepared to do whatever is necessary, at any time, in any part of your life.
Maybe all lawyers should have to eat the mud and the dirt and live hard in the field, without a shower for some time, under stress, and lack of sleep, like you did in Ranger School and I did as a Student Lt. at The Basic School, in Quantico, VA and you realize there is not much you are NOT capable of doing in the way of physical exertion, endurance, and effort in general, if the mission is important enough. I don't see that spirit in many attorneys I meet and have met. Maybe ten percent or less.
I still have that mentality, when I go to the range, stock up on survival food for my family in the event of a natural disaster or WMD attack, have cold weather clothing available for myself and my family, the list is endless, ammo, water, weapons, but it is that mentality that you either get or develop from good combat training or experiences that never leaves you, and you are prepared to do whatever is necessary, at any time, in any part of your life.
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SPC Jason LaComb
Cpt. M C., In my experience, the Military does have a much more harsh punishment system than the civilian world does. It has to, simply because the Military has higher expectations of their population than the civilian world. A great example would be a Pvt. Who disobeyed an order (refused to go to formation) was sentenced to 60 days in a RCF (Regional Correction Facility) then given a BCD. In the Civilian world, if an employee chooses to not follow his bosses orders, he is simply fired, NOT sent to Prison. This happens a fair amount of time in the Army (not so much in other branches). And, it can be argued that military legal defense is equitable to a court appointed lawer in the civilian world, and as we all know, those folks really are just looking for a plea deal so they can move on to the next client.
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SCPO Joshua I
COL Jean (John) F. B. - Sir -- rgr, didn't look through your profile, but obviously as law enforcement you would have had a great deal of experience in that field. My one anecdote is only one anecdote, I do have others. I did not mean to imply that *all* military defense lawyers are inexperienced -- only that most military attorneys I have encountered simply aren't up to the task. In the case I referred to it was really almost a competition between the prosecution and the defense to see who could screw up more and still try to win. I've really never seen anything like it before or since in any career field -- battle of the incompetents. It's certainly an extreme example.
Captain Gallardo has thoroughly captured the issues as I see it with the defense attorney system. I'm sure that there are some defense attorneys who have a great deal of experience and are experts in their field -- but they don't seem to be available to the E-5s who are falsely accused of a career ending crime that doesn't quite meet the bar for a GCM.
The military justice system as I see it is an anachronism of the days of sail, when Sailors left their home country behind for years at a time and the Captain's ability to punish had to be absolute. Now? We just don't live in that world anymore. The system needs an overhaul -- or complete eradication.
Captain Gallardo has thoroughly captured the issues as I see it with the defense attorney system. I'm sure that there are some defense attorneys who have a great deal of experience and are experts in their field -- but they don't seem to be available to the E-5s who are falsely accused of a career ending crime that doesn't quite meet the bar for a GCM.
The military justice system as I see it is an anachronism of the days of sail, when Sailors left their home country behind for years at a time and the Captain's ability to punish had to be absolute. Now? We just don't live in that world anymore. The system needs an overhaul -- or complete eradication.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
SCPO Joshua I - I understand what you are saying and agree to a degree. No system is perfect and every occupation has people in it who are good and some who are bad. Attorneys are no different.
I know there are some issues with the Military Justice system, as there are with any system, however, I think it would be a tragedy do scrap it and allow civilian courts to take over the current military system. I agree some changes could be made to make it better. Maybe, as CPT Gallardo, stated, a career track for Defense Counsels, maybe even making them DoD civilians, would help. But, even that would not guarantee the "best and brightest" would be in that career field, just as a civilian attorney hire by a military defendant in today's system might not be (and may actually be worse than the military attorney appointed).
No system is perfect. From my experience, I think our current system works pretty well. I believe the majority of military attorneys are conscientious, dedicated, and professional, whether they are on the side of the prosecution or defense. In addition, the accused has the opportunity to hire a civilian attorney if he/she wants.
I know there are some issues with the Military Justice system, as there are with any system, however, I think it would be a tragedy do scrap it and allow civilian courts to take over the current military system. I agree some changes could be made to make it better. Maybe, as CPT Gallardo, stated, a career track for Defense Counsels, maybe even making them DoD civilians, would help. But, even that would not guarantee the "best and brightest" would be in that career field, just as a civilian attorney hire by a military defendant in today's system might not be (and may actually be worse than the military attorney appointed).
No system is perfect. From my experience, I think our current system works pretty well. I believe the majority of military attorneys are conscientious, dedicated, and professional, whether they are on the side of the prosecution or defense. In addition, the accused has the opportunity to hire a civilian attorney if he/she wants.
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CPT (Join to see) I am not sure how intentionally stabbing another soldier in the heart and accidentally shooting a wife are even in the same ballpark. There are WAAAAY too many subtleties that the press isn't telling us here. Military.com should check their sources before publishing this type of article. The News Tribune (From Washington) originally published this article with a mindset to discredit the military justice system.
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I have had a similar incident of 2 airman who were equally responsible for an accident that happened on base. One received multiple paperwork that followed him to his separation. The other one just got hit with one paperwork, got Airman of the month, and had a line number for promotion, and went on for cross training.
Although it does look like in this case, they are two separate cases, however both involving manslaughter. It seems that military court is quicker to convict as opposed to civilian court. I had a friend of mine as a suspect for something (I believe) he did not commit. He had two lawyers, one military and one civilian. His military lawyer kept trying to persuade him to plead guilty and the courts may be sympathetic, whereas the civilian lawyer told him to not saying anything at all as anything can be entered in as evidence despite his innocence.
Although it does look like in this case, they are two separate cases, however both involving manslaughter. It seems that military court is quicker to convict as opposed to civilian court. I had a friend of mine as a suspect for something (I believe) he did not commit. He had two lawyers, one military and one civilian. His military lawyer kept trying to persuade him to plead guilty and the courts may be sympathetic, whereas the civilian lawyer told him to not saying anything at all as anything can be entered in as evidence despite his innocence.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
SrA Edward Vong They did not both involve manslaughter... One was convicted of murder (putting a knife in another's heart) even though he stated he did not intend to kill him. Really? The why knife him in the heart?
Yes, typically, a military court is more harsh than a civilian court would be? Is that wrong? I don't think so. The military is based on rules, regulations, discipline, etc. and should be more harsh on those who commit offenses than heir civilian counterparts. Just like I never had any issue with Military Police charged with offenses getting harsher punishment than non-Military Police. If you are tasked with enforcing laws, you should be given tougher punishment if you violate the law.
I think just about everybody can come up with examples they think demonstrate disparity for the "same offense". However, are they really the same? Did exactly the same facts exists in both cases. Were both equally responsible for the outcome? Did both subjects have the same background, track record, and everything else that plays into the punishment decision. I, for one, never subscribed to the idea that there should be a chart that says "f you committed this offense, this is the punishment". Too many variables to include an assessment of the "whole person". Should a person who has committed his/her first offense receive the same punishment as a given to a multiple offender? Should a PFC and a SGT who committed the same offense receive the same punishment?
Too little information in the article to make an assessment, however, from what I see, it appears that what happened was justified. I do not subscribe to the writer's apparent attempt to portray the military justice system as flawed or unfair.
Yes, typically, a military court is more harsh than a civilian court would be? Is that wrong? I don't think so. The military is based on rules, regulations, discipline, etc. and should be more harsh on those who commit offenses than heir civilian counterparts. Just like I never had any issue with Military Police charged with offenses getting harsher punishment than non-Military Police. If you are tasked with enforcing laws, you should be given tougher punishment if you violate the law.
I think just about everybody can come up with examples they think demonstrate disparity for the "same offense". However, are they really the same? Did exactly the same facts exists in both cases. Were both equally responsible for the outcome? Did both subjects have the same background, track record, and everything else that plays into the punishment decision. I, for one, never subscribed to the idea that there should be a chart that says "f you committed this offense, this is the punishment". Too many variables to include an assessment of the "whole person". Should a person who has committed his/her first offense receive the same punishment as a given to a multiple offender? Should a PFC and a SGT who committed the same offense receive the same punishment?
Too little information in the article to make an assessment, however, from what I see, it appears that what happened was justified. I do not subscribe to the writer's apparent attempt to portray the military justice system as flawed or unfair.
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