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I'm posting this ONLY in the hope of a good discussion. While I can see some of the points of view in this article, even agree with a few that aren't slanted towards blacks, it lost me the moment this was said "Black privilege even extends to the White House, he says. Barack Obama was an inexperienced presidential candidate who was elected because Americans wanted to experience a post-racial sugar high, he says. "He wouldn't be elected dogcatcher if he wasn't black," Horowitz says of Obama". This reads as an insult to me, not so much on ANY privilege, but apparently he was hired off his ability being he IS a scholar, a teacher, and a lawyer (by degree at least). He had a job before office where he was a Senator, so being hired as a dogcatcher is an insult and makes a rather interesting article fall flat. I FIRMLY believe that all races have had issues. Not a doubt in my mind. But there were laws created before that squarely targeted blacks (Jim Crow), that were passed and later repealed, then others that again hit minorities hard (Three Strikes Law by Bubba). Affirmative Action could objectively been seen as pro-black, but it's been watered down to where it actually helps whites. If you think I'm nuts, I'll use a movie as an example of reality. Drumline was set at an HBCU. In the drumline was a white man who when asked how he got there, he mentions jokingly "Affirmative Action". The joke isn't a joke at all. Howard University in DC a HBCU has quite a few whites attending. Some of the bands, football teams at HBCU's now have a more diverse and integrated setting with more than the "required" blacks there. The NAACP was mentioned as something that only blacks have. That's not true being it wasn't made by blacks, although the front office would have you thinking that we did it alone. No this isn't a Rachael Dolezal moment either. Is there "privilege" pertaining to certain races? I don't know. I might sound "white", might like "white" things, maybe even dress "white". But at no point do I know or have a clue as to what being a white person is. Yes there are the stereotypes, but they're JUST that...stereotypes. I could tell you what being "black" is, but then the question becomes "what is being (insert racial color here)", and "how did you come to that along with does it apply to all of that race"? If you cannot answer without being objective, then skip this, and move onto other threads. If you feel you can be civil, open, and try to see opposing views, then please stop post and run your gums. Admin if this creates more issues than it's worth DELETE or LOCK the entire post.
It's time to talk about 'black privilege'
Posted from cnn.com
Equality
Racism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
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In my opinion every ethnic group, gender, orientation, etc receives some level of privilege. Whether it's mothers receiving preference in custody cases or it being socially acceptable for some ethnic groups to use slurs and not others, it's all "privilege." It's pervasive to the point that I choose not to worry about it. Life is never going to be "fair." All we can do is treat one another with respect and help one another when we can.
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SSG Warren Swan
Sir we're going to have to limit all comments from grunt officers to one line only. If you are Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger, or any other tabbed school, you'll loose additional words in that sentence. If you were a NCO and changed over, we'll give you a entire line back. POG officers get paragraphs.
All jokes aside, you're absolutely right, and I agree with you 100%.
All jokes aside, you're absolutely right, and I agree with you 100%.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Robert Webster - You get a paragraph.......as I exit stage left!!!!
But I am joking with both of you in all seriousness.
But I am joking with both of you in all seriousness.
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SSG Swan, I'm going to challenge one of your statements.
__"I could tell you what being "black" is"
I believe that you can tell me what being Warren Swan is, and that your race is a big part of that. But do you really think there is one monolithic "black" experience? Does the "black" experience of poverty stricken rural kid in Mississippi match up with the "black" experience of a wealthy kid from a highly educated family from Connecticut? I don't think your experience is invalid or falsely perceived, but it is impossible to isolate the variables and say this is what it is like to be "__________".
I grew up in Tucson. I went to, at the time, racially diverse school, about 35% White, 35% Latino 20% Black, 5% Pacific Asians, and 5% Native Americans. I was one of the few mixed race kids (Latino and White) But almost all of us came from solidly upper middle class or affluent homes. Our social groups/cliques were not based on race. There were jocks, and cowboys, and nerds, and performers, etc. and most kids could slide from one group to another.
As a group, our experiences were not the same as kids that came from homes that were low-income or impoverished. I was into music and martial arts and had friends at most of the High Schools in Tucson. I saw enough to believe there were no valid monolithic generalizations.
This is an honest question, not an attempt to pick a fight or stakeout a position. What 3-5 things do you think I in particular, or white males in general do not have an accurate perception of "black culture"? or the "black experience"?
__"I could tell you what being "black" is"
I believe that you can tell me what being Warren Swan is, and that your race is a big part of that. But do you really think there is one monolithic "black" experience? Does the "black" experience of poverty stricken rural kid in Mississippi match up with the "black" experience of a wealthy kid from a highly educated family from Connecticut? I don't think your experience is invalid or falsely perceived, but it is impossible to isolate the variables and say this is what it is like to be "__________".
I grew up in Tucson. I went to, at the time, racially diverse school, about 35% White, 35% Latino 20% Black, 5% Pacific Asians, and 5% Native Americans. I was one of the few mixed race kids (Latino and White) But almost all of us came from solidly upper middle class or affluent homes. Our social groups/cliques were not based on race. There were jocks, and cowboys, and nerds, and performers, etc. and most kids could slide from one group to another.
As a group, our experiences were not the same as kids that came from homes that were low-income or impoverished. I was into music and martial arts and had friends at most of the High Schools in Tucson. I saw enough to believe there were no valid monolithic generalizations.
This is an honest question, not an attempt to pick a fight or stakeout a position. What 3-5 things do you think I in particular, or white males in general do not have an accurate perception of "black culture"? or the "black experience"?
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SSG Warren Swan
Good question Sir. I'll take a stab at it:
1. There is no real "mixed" for Blacks. Your whatever is Black, the other parent whatever, bottom line is you're Black. Now with PC, those who don't want to identify with being Black can use "mixed". In this, I've never met a "pure" Black man or woman. Now some will argue that if both parents are of the same race, then they are pure of that race. That is wrong and a completely false statement. There is no pure Black man. You run down you tree as far as you can, and you will see offshoots where White pops in.
2. Being hated on by your own. I do not think it's a "Black" thing, but it's more prevalent with us from my experiences. Bleach you hair, straighten it, are you "light" enough? Are you "Dark" enough? Do you want to be "accepted" better have the right clothes. Spike Lee mentions this in School Daze where he shows how we really look at each other, and after 30 years since, we do the very things he shows in the movie.
3. Embarrassment of being Black. A few years ago bleaching was limited to hair or clothes. Now you have bleaches or creme's that can take the color out of the skin permanently. Why would a Black person want to use something like that? You're probably self loathing, and can't seem to find your way with your own people. Rapper Little Kim would be my newest example of this along with Sammy Sosa and Michael Jackson. Jackson claimed an illness that would cause his skin to lighten. The running joke was that Joe finally beat the black off him. In the end, he did, and a lot of other insecure Blacks at the same time. Villiago doesn't change your entire body and its in different areas in different colors.
4. Loss of identity. Elvis is considered the "King" of Rock and Roll. How can he be"king" when his style was taken from the blacks in the south? Pat Boone was the same. A Black man could make a record and it might be played, Pat Boone remakes the song, and it's a hit. This to me is being a Culture Vulture. I HATE to use this as an example, but the whole twerking thing. Not sure how many black strip clubs you've been in, but "twerking" has been around since I was a child. Move forward to a young white girl who gets on stage with another artist, and she begins to "twerk". White America goes insane, and Black America is like WTF? This isn't new, and it's older than her father. We ALL knew about this. But the minute she did it, "Myley Cyrus acting up now...on stage twerking". She rode that gravy train till the end or sort of. Now on youtube you can see White girls having twerk contests....I'm all for it, but she gets credit? She can have it.
5. Made history...can't find it. All races have had a significant impact on the creation and maintenance of the US. But when it comes to certain things, minorities aren't very well represented, and I mean that as a historical sense. Blacks are more than Slaves. When the confederate flag was removed, White America was raising hell claiming we were whitewashing history. But I often ask, where are prominent Slave statues? Where can I go and see outside for example "Harriet Tubman began the underground rail road here". It's not and if it's there I've never seen it. History should be the one thing outside of music, sex, and equality in law that should be enjoyed year round, but it's not. It's shoved into months which still won't cover all that anyone has done.
Sir you might be able to connect to a few of these, but certain ones are only used by us, and against us at the same time. Being Black isn't a job; it's DEFINITELY one hell of an adventure.
1. There is no real "mixed" for Blacks. Your whatever is Black, the other parent whatever, bottom line is you're Black. Now with PC, those who don't want to identify with being Black can use "mixed". In this, I've never met a "pure" Black man or woman. Now some will argue that if both parents are of the same race, then they are pure of that race. That is wrong and a completely false statement. There is no pure Black man. You run down you tree as far as you can, and you will see offshoots where White pops in.
2. Being hated on by your own. I do not think it's a "Black" thing, but it's more prevalent with us from my experiences. Bleach you hair, straighten it, are you "light" enough? Are you "Dark" enough? Do you want to be "accepted" better have the right clothes. Spike Lee mentions this in School Daze where he shows how we really look at each other, and after 30 years since, we do the very things he shows in the movie.
3. Embarrassment of being Black. A few years ago bleaching was limited to hair or clothes. Now you have bleaches or creme's that can take the color out of the skin permanently. Why would a Black person want to use something like that? You're probably self loathing, and can't seem to find your way with your own people. Rapper Little Kim would be my newest example of this along with Sammy Sosa and Michael Jackson. Jackson claimed an illness that would cause his skin to lighten. The running joke was that Joe finally beat the black off him. In the end, he did, and a lot of other insecure Blacks at the same time. Villiago doesn't change your entire body and its in different areas in different colors.
4. Loss of identity. Elvis is considered the "King" of Rock and Roll. How can he be"king" when his style was taken from the blacks in the south? Pat Boone was the same. A Black man could make a record and it might be played, Pat Boone remakes the song, and it's a hit. This to me is being a Culture Vulture. I HATE to use this as an example, but the whole twerking thing. Not sure how many black strip clubs you've been in, but "twerking" has been around since I was a child. Move forward to a young white girl who gets on stage with another artist, and she begins to "twerk". White America goes insane, and Black America is like WTF? This isn't new, and it's older than her father. We ALL knew about this. But the minute she did it, "Myley Cyrus acting up now...on stage twerking". She rode that gravy train till the end or sort of. Now on youtube you can see White girls having twerk contests....I'm all for it, but she gets credit? She can have it.
5. Made history...can't find it. All races have had a significant impact on the creation and maintenance of the US. But when it comes to certain things, minorities aren't very well represented, and I mean that as a historical sense. Blacks are more than Slaves. When the confederate flag was removed, White America was raising hell claiming we were whitewashing history. But I often ask, where are prominent Slave statues? Where can I go and see outside for example "Harriet Tubman began the underground rail road here". It's not and if it's there I've never seen it. History should be the one thing outside of music, sex, and equality in law that should be enjoyed year round, but it's not. It's shoved into months which still won't cover all that anyone has done.
Sir you might be able to connect to a few of these, but certain ones are only used by us, and against us at the same time. Being Black isn't a job; it's DEFINITELY one hell of an adventure.
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Maj John Bell
SSG Warren Swan - I spent quite a time trying to draft a response that would have some meaning. Didn't like a single one of them. I kept telling to relay stories that show my "sympatico". You don't need my stories.
The only thing I can offer is a promise. If I see it, and I recognize. I'll call it out.
The only thing I can offer is a promise. If I see it, and I recognize. I'll call it out.
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SSG Warren Swan
Maj John Bell - Sir, you could've taken Black out and put White in on some of those. None of those make your life experiences any less than mine, or any better than mine, but as I tell others, if we're not going to talk about it, try to resolve the past without loosing it, we're not going to progress.
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I am an Air Force Guy so can I have a few more lines than Airborne? LOL
To tell the truth I am tired of anyone using the word privilege. Me and all my friends I grew up with got where we are because of hard work and determination. Nothing was given to us from day one. I grew up in the deep south in Miss with 3 other siblings. Mom and dad worked hard to pay bills and keep food on the table. And it was very tough. Although we probably qualified for assistance, my dad was raised and believed in taking care of his own family. In my hometown, there were very few “big” houses. Most of the living arrangements were shotgun houses or trailers. It did not matter where you lived or if black or white as long as you took care of your family to most…of course there are always some outliers. When I played sports in High school it set the standard for life. I knew that I was throwing a block for a Greg Williams or Anthony Taylor (by the way they are black) so they could break through the line and hopefully gain yardage or score. They relied on me to open it up for them and I relied on them to get to the goal line or first down line. Their momma treated me no different than them and vice versa. If we were hungry we got fed. If we were doing something wrong, God forbid it, we got whooped…and there was no sparing the rod.
The same in my military time. I could give a rats ass what color you are or where you came from…all I care about is that when the proverbial feces hits the oscillating device, you have my back and you know I have yours. I don’t care where you are from because we all worked hard to keep our noses clean so we could serve…we all got paid the same and all had a job to do to make sure each other got home to our families.
The problem with privilege is that we keep perpetuating it. I have an example. My little cousin stays at home with him mom (not old enough for school) because she runs a business out of her house…receiving shipments and sending shipments everyday through UPS. The UPS man is black. When he stops he always takes time to talk to my cousin. Recently we were at a baseball game for my cousins older brother. A UPS man came to the game in uniform to watch his son play ball. He was white. When he walked up, my little cousin stopped and told his mom, “look mom, there is Reggie”. All he saw was the uniform. He didn’t see black or white or even a face. All he saw was his friend. As we get older, we (black and white) as adults, perpetuate the idea of separation and “privilege” so that our kids grow up with that bias. Until we can eliminate the perpetuation of stereotypes, we will always have problem.
I believe there is some truth to Barack Obama being elected because of his race...first term only. I have family members that stated the voted for him because they wanted to be part of the history of electing the first African American to office. I think there are more truths to that that we care to think…for the first term. The second term, people obviously voted him back in because they like what he was doing…Don’t know why but they did. Our democratic process worked…whether we agreed to the outcome or not. I disagree with the comment about dogcatcher. Whether or not you like him (I don’t) he is a very well educated man and that comment is an insult.
Thanks for bringing this out. More civil discussion like this are needed. Too many people ask for civil discussions and when you disagree they come after you with both barrels. We can agree to disagree and keep it civil.
To tell the truth I am tired of anyone using the word privilege. Me and all my friends I grew up with got where we are because of hard work and determination. Nothing was given to us from day one. I grew up in the deep south in Miss with 3 other siblings. Mom and dad worked hard to pay bills and keep food on the table. And it was very tough. Although we probably qualified for assistance, my dad was raised and believed in taking care of his own family. In my hometown, there were very few “big” houses. Most of the living arrangements were shotgun houses or trailers. It did not matter where you lived or if black or white as long as you took care of your family to most…of course there are always some outliers. When I played sports in High school it set the standard for life. I knew that I was throwing a block for a Greg Williams or Anthony Taylor (by the way they are black) so they could break through the line and hopefully gain yardage or score. They relied on me to open it up for them and I relied on them to get to the goal line or first down line. Their momma treated me no different than them and vice versa. If we were hungry we got fed. If we were doing something wrong, God forbid it, we got whooped…and there was no sparing the rod.
The same in my military time. I could give a rats ass what color you are or where you came from…all I care about is that when the proverbial feces hits the oscillating device, you have my back and you know I have yours. I don’t care where you are from because we all worked hard to keep our noses clean so we could serve…we all got paid the same and all had a job to do to make sure each other got home to our families.
The problem with privilege is that we keep perpetuating it. I have an example. My little cousin stays at home with him mom (not old enough for school) because she runs a business out of her house…receiving shipments and sending shipments everyday through UPS. The UPS man is black. When he stops he always takes time to talk to my cousin. Recently we were at a baseball game for my cousins older brother. A UPS man came to the game in uniform to watch his son play ball. He was white. When he walked up, my little cousin stopped and told his mom, “look mom, there is Reggie”. All he saw was the uniform. He didn’t see black or white or even a face. All he saw was his friend. As we get older, we (black and white) as adults, perpetuate the idea of separation and “privilege” so that our kids grow up with that bias. Until we can eliminate the perpetuation of stereotypes, we will always have problem.
I believe there is some truth to Barack Obama being elected because of his race...first term only. I have family members that stated the voted for him because they wanted to be part of the history of electing the first African American to office. I think there are more truths to that that we care to think…for the first term. The second term, people obviously voted him back in because they like what he was doing…Don’t know why but they did. Our democratic process worked…whether we agreed to the outcome or not. I disagree with the comment about dogcatcher. Whether or not you like him (I don’t) he is a very well educated man and that comment is an insult.
Thanks for bringing this out. More civil discussion like this are needed. Too many people ask for civil discussions and when you disagree they come after you with both barrels. We can agree to disagree and keep it civil.
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