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Should we be paying attention to what candidates are saying or is this rhetoric for trying to gain votes? Will we see this bravado go away later in the campaign as we have seen Mr. Trump back track on his statements already?
There a lot of debate about Donald Trump and the things he says in relation to the U.S. military, ultimately it's up to the individual to decide what his or her opinion of any candidate is. Should we turn a blind ear when we hear candidates make broad promises to wipe out ISIL using methods such as "carpet bombing" or when Donald Trump responded to moderator Bret Baier's note that several high-ranking military and intelligence officials said they believed the rank-and-file military would refuse to commit war crimes, per their training to refuse illegal orders,
Trump replied, "They won't refuse. They're not going to refuse me. Believe me."
In response to Mr. Trump's comments, the author of the attached article, Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, states, "I had such a visceral reaction to one candidate who stated that the those who serve in the U.S. military would blindly ignore their oath, their training and their conscience to follow what were clearly illegal, unethical and immoral orders. When pressed, that same candidate implied that his personal and directive and leadership prowess would prevail.
It wouldn't.
Even though that same candidate has now tempered those words with a press release and several tweets, as a professional soldier I picked up the "intent" the first time I heard it. And it scared me.
I know our soldiers, and I know our military heritage and the American way of war through study and experience. When well-led and well trained, Americans who wear our country's cloth are pure in spirit and decisive in purpose. They will go where they are sent, fight where they go, and do everything to win where they fight. And they will do it like no other soldier on the globe, because that is who we are.
The profession of arms demands much. Most of all, being a uniformed member of the military of the United States requires unmatched skills, but also a strong character, a honed intellect, an understanding that there are limits to what civilians ask us to do. When the orders we receive from a civilian authority pass legal, ethical or moral boundaries, any soldier of any rank has the right and the duty to first question those orders to receive clarification, and if necessary disobey them if they cross the line. That's what makes us different."
There a lot of debate about Donald Trump and the things he says in relation to the U.S. military, ultimately it's up to the individual to decide what his or her opinion of any candidate is. Should we turn a blind ear when we hear candidates make broad promises to wipe out ISIL using methods such as "carpet bombing" or when Donald Trump responded to moderator Bret Baier's note that several high-ranking military and intelligence officials said they believed the rank-and-file military would refuse to commit war crimes, per their training to refuse illegal orders,
Trump replied, "They won't refuse. They're not going to refuse me. Believe me."
In response to Mr. Trump's comments, the author of the attached article, Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, states, "I had such a visceral reaction to one candidate who stated that the those who serve in the U.S. military would blindly ignore their oath, their training and their conscience to follow what were clearly illegal, unethical and immoral orders. When pressed, that same candidate implied that his personal and directive and leadership prowess would prevail.
It wouldn't.
Even though that same candidate has now tempered those words with a press release and several tweets, as a professional soldier I picked up the "intent" the first time I heard it. And it scared me.
I know our soldiers, and I know our military heritage and the American way of war through study and experience. When well-led and well trained, Americans who wear our country's cloth are pure in spirit and decisive in purpose. They will go where they are sent, fight where they go, and do everything to win where they fight. And they will do it like no other soldier on the globe, because that is who we are.
The profession of arms demands much. Most of all, being a uniformed member of the military of the United States requires unmatched skills, but also a strong character, a honed intellect, an understanding that there are limits to what civilians ask us to do. When the orders we receive from a civilian authority pass legal, ethical or moral boundaries, any soldier of any rank has the right and the duty to first question those orders to receive clarification, and if necessary disobey them if they cross the line. That's what makes us different."
Donald Trump's military remarks: A soldier's view
Posted from cnn.com
Donald Trump
Elections
Election 2016
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 3
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I've said this before in another post: What is the difference between "ordering", and "sanctioning"? Both leave room for interpretation, and being the person who would do the act, will be a JE, NCO, or JO, they will have to figure that out on the fly, without the advice from JAG, and know they WILL be the lone nail that gets hammered depending on how that is interpreted. The bad part of this is while Trump openly mentions he's in favor of it, there are SM's in now, who would "gladly" execute his "thought". Do we NOT see a problem with this? A SM at ALL times should be certain that:
1. Unified Chain of Command
2. The SM's branch will not send an unethical, unmoral, or unlawful command or "desire" that would openly place them in danger.
3. If an order did come down that was questionable at best illegal at worst, the command group would rescind the order or amend it to where it meets the conditions of law of war. If that cannot be done, refuse the order and stand by their convictions.
4. While we are all expendable, that does not give commanders or legislators free run to see how many they can "off" for the SNG's of it.
5. And this above anything else....look at history and war crimes. Look at who was punished. Then look in the mirror and ask yourself, are you ready to spend the rest of your life in prison following an order you KNEW was wrong? If you say yes, do your thing. If you say no, you've just saved a life, and it might just be yours.
1. Unified Chain of Command
2. The SM's branch will not send an unethical, unmoral, or unlawful command or "desire" that would openly place them in danger.
3. If an order did come down that was questionable at best illegal at worst, the command group would rescind the order or amend it to where it meets the conditions of law of war. If that cannot be done, refuse the order and stand by their convictions.
4. While we are all expendable, that does not give commanders or legislators free run to see how many they can "off" for the SNG's of it.
5. And this above anything else....look at history and war crimes. Look at who was punished. Then look in the mirror and ask yourself, are you ready to spend the rest of your life in prison following an order you KNEW was wrong? If you say yes, do your thing. If you say no, you've just saved a life, and it might just be yours.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Is it immoral to send hundreds of troops charging up a hill with no serious strategic value with estimated losses of over 50%? Here is two incidences that prove they leadership will do. But, to your point, anyone that does anything that could be remotely considered EIT or torture without direct written orders giving the legal reasoning behind such an order, is risking their career or spending time in prison.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/vietnamwar/p/hamburgerhill.htm
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/vietnamwar/p/hamburgerhill.htm
Vietnam War: Battle of Hamburger Hill
In May 1969, US forces moved into the A Shau Valley in South Vietnam opening the Battle of Hamburger Hill. Enduring close quarters jungle fighting and several friendly fire incidents, they were finally able to overcome the North Vietnamese resistance. Due to the severity of the fighting, Hill 937 became known as
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I'm not worried about it, he's not an idiot but he's doing what he needs to win. I honestly think he isn't going to be a drastic as everyone thinks.
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I am sorry folks...we need to have a national debate on how we are going to prosecute this war (aka GWOT) and Trump has once again pulled the debate back into the realm of reality and not the PC Wonderland. Yes it troubles me as to his intent because I have images of Mie Lie burned in my mind (yes I am one of those "Old Soldiers"). In certain situations enhanced interrogation techniques are necessary but so long as we steer clear of torcher. Judicial bombing is acceptable, and maybe even carpet bombing in certain target areas. But what we as a people have to ask ourselves always is where is the moral high ground that can still give us the victory we desire. We can never loose sight of the fact we are fighting a war for the survival of western civilization against an enemy that uses human shields, beheads and/or burns captives, and rapes mutilates and then kills young girls and women. We are watching the eradication of all things Christian in the territories they occupy.
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