Posted on Feb 7, 2015
What do you "Honestly" think about women attending Ranger School?
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Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 241
Posted 10 y ago
With all due respect to male Soldiers, I do not understand the mentality that males are automatically elite physical studs in comparison to females. I out-run and out-ruck the vast majority of male Soldiers that I have encountered. (I recently completed a 12 mile ruck with 45 pounds in 2:04.) If I can out-PT a male because I have more toughness, drive, and intestinal fortitude, why should I be deprived of the opportunity to go to the best schools simply because I lack a Y chromosome? In my opinion, that is asinine.
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Sgt (Join to see)
5 y
As long as they don’t lower the original bar to accommodate women. I saw some of that when I joined the Marine Corp in the late 70s
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Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Can't wait until a woman graduates from Ranger School. If they can make it, they can make it. If they can't they can't. 15 made it through Pre-Ranger. Looking forward to the right people making it through...male or female.
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LTC (Join to see)
>1 y
CPT Raymond W. Starmann by your math and the population of the world that means there are 36,200 women that could make it through Ranger School. A world population of 7.24B divided in half to 3.62B (as the figures for male to female ratio are close enough to 1:1 to not make a noticeable difference) then multiplied by .00001. I think that 1 of these first few classes is 1 of those 36200, and I believe that all of them being recycled shows they are not bending the standards.
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COL (Join to see)
>1 y
2. The answer is 2. Issue settled for the next couple of days. I am sure people will now be trying to throw all sorts of BS-flags about it. Glad to see these two hard-core officers make it through this course! Congrats.
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1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
LTC (Join to see) - I am pretty sure there is not 7.24B in the United States, I understand you math, however only United States Service Members can attend Ranger School.
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LTC (Join to see)
>1 y
1SG (Join to see) - Actually, many of our allies send their Soldiers, NCOs, and Officers as it is a preeminent school for tactical leaders in their countries as well.
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Posted 10 y ago
All I will say is that they better join RallyPoint and tell us how it went.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
10 y
Brother that's the truth. It will be monumental event to say the least!
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SFC James Needles
9 y
I for one would love to read about their experiences, however, Im thinking it will be quite some time before we get that opportunity
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