Posted on Sep 8, 2016
Why is there such a long wait for reserve component officer and warrant federal recognition/promotion?
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Can anyone tell me why the process takes so long for RC officer/warrant promotions to run through the FedRec cycle? I'm an ARNG officer and I've had my state promotion orders for CPT since the middle of April. I've been tracking my packet on the ARNG-G1 website and it was awaiting addition to a scroll until a month ago and last week the scroll was ready to start the approval DoD cycle. Thoughts?
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 419
I have been meaning to post some of the info I have learned. I am not saying that it is all absolutely correct, but I do my best not to relay any information that is only hearsay. If anyone has contrary information, I will be happy to dig in to an accurate answer.
I am NOT an official voice. I am doing my best to relay info. I do not speak for anyone at NGB and I have not coordinated this with anyone there. My experience is primarily with UVP of Warrant Officers. I focus on those, but dont know the differences in the normal DA Select process.
1. First and foremost, the Federal Recognition requirement (and process) is NOT invented by NGB. There are many historical instances that support it. Check out the history of Colonel Sanders, Kentucky National Guard (yes, he is real). What we go through at our State levels is a board that RECOMMENDS Federal Recognition. Only the President can grant Federal Recognition, which he has delegated to the Secretary of Defense. Federal Recognition is the certification that you meet the requirements to serve alongside your Regular Army peers in the event we are Federalized and called to Active Duty under Title 10.
2. NGB only accepts packets from the States and scrolls them. Their 'standard' is to accept within 10 days and assign to a scroll within 45 days. Once this is complete, and the scroll is transmitted to DMPM, their part in the process is complete, until the scroll is returned. NGB is doing some additional initial screening in an effort to cut down on the delays for issues caught further down the line and assist with the process. Generally, NGB says they are meeting their suspenses for scrolling.
3. The whole process at DA and DOD is just normal staffing. Any time a document moves from one place to another, there is always a lot of work. SecArmy has to approve before a doc goes to SecDef. CSA approves before it goes to SecArmy, Dir Army Staff approves before it goes to CSA, etc. Its bureaucracy, but its SOP whether a change to a Reg, a Policy Memo, or a Promotion Scroll.
4. The Exemplary Conduct Screening (at OTJAG) was expected to add about 45 days to the process. A normal Scroll (without screening) is expected to take 4 months, but NGR 600-101 allows packets to be submitted 120 days PRIOR to eligibility (TIG met). The Screening is directed by SecDef and SecArmy (Army Dir 2016-26), nothing to do with NGB. While it is taking 10 months in many cases, the EXPECTED time is approx 6 months, meaning it is running about 4 months longer. That is not good, but it is what ABCMR, et al, are looking at. Early in FY17, scrolls were taking 5-6 months (presumably with Screening). There are THOUSANDS of promotions that go through Screening each year and I was told that initially, there was one person doing all that screening.
5. Promotions to CW2 and 1LT are backdated. I was told this was to date of the State Fed Rec Board. For that reason, they are only done every quarter (at least for CW2) and are very LARGE lists. Of course this means they take longer. We all know how important it is to be able to pin on that rank! But at least you can take some comfort in the fact that pay is also backdated.
As I have posted before, new packets are electronically transmitted through TMT. This should help speed things up, but also provides greater visibility. However, the NGB G1Tracker we all use does not interface directly with TMT. There are updates being sent out via State channels that are more up to date than the Tracker. It would be nice to have an accurate Tracker, but we dont and it doesnt affect the status of your scroll in any way. We may not be able to track it, but it doesnt mean it is standing still.
I post this because I understand the desire for information. It doesn't solve the problem, but no one wants to lose any of you and the experience and skill you bring. By my count, there are 630 WOs somewhere in the process that have been accepted by NGB awaiting Fed Rec. A few of us are here, but there are a lot more going through it. Everyone appreciates what we all do, we just have to endure this for a while, but we will get through it. Call it an exercise in resilience. :-)
Discuss. Rationally, please. :-)
I am NOT an official voice. I am doing my best to relay info. I do not speak for anyone at NGB and I have not coordinated this with anyone there. My experience is primarily with UVP of Warrant Officers. I focus on those, but dont know the differences in the normal DA Select process.
1. First and foremost, the Federal Recognition requirement (and process) is NOT invented by NGB. There are many historical instances that support it. Check out the history of Colonel Sanders, Kentucky National Guard (yes, he is real). What we go through at our State levels is a board that RECOMMENDS Federal Recognition. Only the President can grant Federal Recognition, which he has delegated to the Secretary of Defense. Federal Recognition is the certification that you meet the requirements to serve alongside your Regular Army peers in the event we are Federalized and called to Active Duty under Title 10.
2. NGB only accepts packets from the States and scrolls them. Their 'standard' is to accept within 10 days and assign to a scroll within 45 days. Once this is complete, and the scroll is transmitted to DMPM, their part in the process is complete, until the scroll is returned. NGB is doing some additional initial screening in an effort to cut down on the delays for issues caught further down the line and assist with the process. Generally, NGB says they are meeting their suspenses for scrolling.
3. The whole process at DA and DOD is just normal staffing. Any time a document moves from one place to another, there is always a lot of work. SecArmy has to approve before a doc goes to SecDef. CSA approves before it goes to SecArmy, Dir Army Staff approves before it goes to CSA, etc. Its bureaucracy, but its SOP whether a change to a Reg, a Policy Memo, or a Promotion Scroll.
4. The Exemplary Conduct Screening (at OTJAG) was expected to add about 45 days to the process. A normal Scroll (without screening) is expected to take 4 months, but NGR 600-101 allows packets to be submitted 120 days PRIOR to eligibility (TIG met). The Screening is directed by SecDef and SecArmy (Army Dir 2016-26), nothing to do with NGB. While it is taking 10 months in many cases, the EXPECTED time is approx 6 months, meaning it is running about 4 months longer. That is not good, but it is what ABCMR, et al, are looking at. Early in FY17, scrolls were taking 5-6 months (presumably with Screening). There are THOUSANDS of promotions that go through Screening each year and I was told that initially, there was one person doing all that screening.
5. Promotions to CW2 and 1LT are backdated. I was told this was to date of the State Fed Rec Board. For that reason, they are only done every quarter (at least for CW2) and are very LARGE lists. Of course this means they take longer. We all know how important it is to be able to pin on that rank! But at least you can take some comfort in the fact that pay is also backdated.
As I have posted before, new packets are electronically transmitted through TMT. This should help speed things up, but also provides greater visibility. However, the NGB G1Tracker we all use does not interface directly with TMT. There are updates being sent out via State channels that are more up to date than the Tracker. It would be nice to have an accurate Tracker, but we dont and it doesnt affect the status of your scroll in any way. We may not be able to track it, but it doesnt mean it is standing still.
I post this because I understand the desire for information. It doesn't solve the problem, but no one wants to lose any of you and the experience and skill you bring. By my count, there are 630 WOs somewhere in the process that have been accepted by NGB awaiting Fed Rec. A few of us are here, but there are a lot more going through it. Everyone appreciates what we all do, we just have to endure this for a while, but we will get through it. Call it an exercise in resilience. :-)
Discuss. Rationally, please. :-)
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CW5 (Join to see)
Of special note, that I try and tell every WO I meet, get your packet in early!
Use that extra 120 days to get ahead of the game! We need to make sure that information gets the widest distribution!
NGR 600-101: An applicant may be examined for promotion (by the FRB) not earlier than 120-days in advance of completing the prescribed TIG requirements...
Use that extra 120 days to get ahead of the game! We need to make sure that information gets the widest distribution!
NGR 600-101: An applicant may be examined for promotion (by the FRB) not earlier than 120-days in advance of completing the prescribed TIG requirements...
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CW3 (Join to see)
After being on this forum for over a year, and at the cusp of reaching 330-days, this information that you brought forth is perhaps the most insightful and useful thus far. Thank you!
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CW5 (Join to see)
I wish it was known a whole lot sooner! It may not change the outcome, but at least knowing WHY can sometimes reduce the sting.
I know that State CCWOs can be fearsome at times, but they are there for us! A CCWOs ONLY job is to relay information, and keep the Commander (or TAG) apprised of issues affecting the cohort! They defend US!
Also, in thinking, rather than having DA respond to a Congressional Inquiry with the basic facts, I still think your best voice is NGAUS. We all know the facts, the process is slow. DA is just answering the literal question. NGAUS is really the place I think that is best suited to bring about solutions. They wont ask a status (which is what Congress inadvertently does). They will identify the problem and fight for solutions.
Maybe somewhere in NGAUS the guy who can get the SecDef ear for a few minutes and ask him to clear the scrolls faster. As is pointed out, thats a big chunk of time right there!
Just my $.02
I know that State CCWOs can be fearsome at times, but they are there for us! A CCWOs ONLY job is to relay information, and keep the Commander (or TAG) apprised of issues affecting the cohort! They defend US!
Also, in thinking, rather than having DA respond to a Congressional Inquiry with the basic facts, I still think your best voice is NGAUS. We all know the facts, the process is slow. DA is just answering the literal question. NGAUS is really the place I think that is best suited to bring about solutions. They wont ask a status (which is what Congress inadvertently does). They will identify the problem and fight for solutions.
Maybe somewhere in NGAUS the guy who can get the SecDef ear for a few minutes and ask him to clear the scrolls faster. As is pointed out, thats a big chunk of time right there!
Just my $.02
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Here is an update to my post that I put on here....7-months ago. Feel free to add in your personal experiences!
Just think, that in the time that it takes to complete the FEDREC process for U06-17, it is equal to or more than:
1. A deployment, complete with PMT, DEMOB, and leave
2. A full year of college, to include summer session
3. A full-term pregnancy, followed by maternity leave
4. The time it takes to train a fighter pilot (average is 8-9 months)
5. An adjudicated TS clearance, complete with full scope poly
6. The Special Forces Qualification Course, minus language school (and that seemed forever)
7. Six(6) Ranger School Classes, possibly seven (7). Heck, a Ranger School student could recycle each phase twice and still graduate before U06-17 is completed
8. Lastly, I could watch my child grow from birth to that one-year mark when they are walking. Or in my case my child reached the age to graduate college, and then started to have a family of his own, thus beginning #1 all over again in an infinite cycle, much like Groundhog Day.
Just think, that in the time that it takes to complete the FEDREC process for U06-17, it is equal to or more than:
1. A deployment, complete with PMT, DEMOB, and leave
2. A full year of college, to include summer session
3. A full-term pregnancy, followed by maternity leave
4. The time it takes to train a fighter pilot (average is 8-9 months)
5. An adjudicated TS clearance, complete with full scope poly
6. The Special Forces Qualification Course, minus language school (and that seemed forever)
7. Six(6) Ranger School Classes, possibly seven (7). Heck, a Ranger School student could recycle each phase twice and still graduate before U06-17 is completed
8. Lastly, I could watch my child grow from birth to that one-year mark when they are walking. Or in my case my child reached the age to graduate college, and then started to have a family of his own, thus beginning #1 all over again in an infinite cycle, much like Groundhog Day.
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And to think, during the shutdown, or any shutdown for that matter, Congress still gets paid. At the same time, however, their aides do not get paid, and they are the ones doing all of the work. This scenario reminds me of the old MASH episodes with Radar O'Reilly and COL Henry Blake, except in this instance Radar is like a Congressional Aide and COL Blake is the Congressman. Radar (aide) would then present to COL Blake (Congressman) a huge stack of forms, with COL Blake asking, "What am I signing?". Radar replies, "You are signing this form to acknowledge your are signing the other forms, but those forms do not need a signature because this other form says so, but you need to sign this form that gives me permission to present these forms to you, which you do and do not have to sign....sir."
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MAJ(P) (Join to see) that is why a lot of ARNG officers jump ship and come to the reserves. We are larger and not reliant on just the slots in the state in your AOC. Promotions tend to be faster as well.
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MAJ (Join to see)
My wife is in the Reserves. It totally explains why the people from her unit were like, "Give us a call when you want to pick up MAJ."
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CW3 (Join to see)
Unfortunately, there are no Special Forces reserve units because they were deactivated in the early 1990s. As such, we have no choice but to be in the ARNG, which, by the way, has very few 180As (SF Warrant officers).
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MAJ (Join to see)
CW3 (Join to see) - That's the thing that gives me the greatest pause. I am not an 18 series (I'm a PA,) but I love being with 19th Group. This has been some of the most challenging and rewarding work of my career so far, and I want to stay as long as I can on one hand. On the other, I want to do this Army thing as long as the Army will let me, so that career progression is awful important too.
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They got tired of people complaining how long they were on the scroll so they fixed it! Now all of a sudden, when I try to go to Career Center to view how many days I've been on the scroll, I get an access prohibited message. Guess they decided if I can't see it cross the 200 day mark in a couple days, I can't complain! Fixed!
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We should all seek to have our DOR pushed back to the average time for completion based on where your scroll fits in the process. This way we don't lose out on future advancement.
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - seeing these other scrolls over 300 days doesn't give me much hope.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - I saw that and jumped on G1 earlier this morning....Day 280 at OSD :(
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It's the scroll system. If one packet on the scroll the whole scroll goes back . I had a friend that was on a scroll that was 4 months older than the scroll I was on yet I was promoted before her.
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CW3 (Join to see)
This is similar to those moving walkways in the airport, except you are walking in the opposite direction. That is, it takes extra effort just to maintain continuous momentum to go forward, then once you stop the moving (e.g. the JAG office reviewing the scroll) the walkway sends you backwards, almost to the point where you started. Yet you struggle to get to that exact point where you stopped, and then continue with that struggle to move past that point (e.g. JAG or Asst Sec Army) to try and reach the end. Along the way, however, and because you are exhausted, you stop, only for the walkway to send you backwards again, past that first stopping point and almost to the beginning. The cycle continues almost interminably, sort of like Sisyphus rolling the proverbial boulder uphill, thus condemning all of us to the eternal FedRec process. As an added measure, every night I go to sleep by placing one coin on top of each eye so I can pay Charon to ferry me across the river Styx to meet my fate at the hands of Hades, the holder of the scroll in the bowels of FedRec hell. Okay, admittedly my mind went off track on this one; I have no idea how I envisioned this silly analogy.
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This process and others like it need to be improved to the point that that it needs to be efficient and not let those in line for such action waiting for long periods of time.
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Scroll 13-17 (probably will end up being 01-18) created today. Only 200 days to go if Im lucky!
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MAJ (Join to see)
NGB receives scroll updates from the Pentagon once a month. Then NGB updates the scroll. The scroll could easily move through 2 offices by the time NGB updates the website.
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CPT (Join to see)
We moved to Awaiting Dir Ch of Staff Pers approval!! Maybe this means only a few more months?!
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Update for P07-17; Currently my status shows "Awaiting Dir of Mil Pers Mgmt; P07-17; 122 Days in DoD Approval cycle" and RED. I decided to email the folks at NGB and this is what I was told by CW3 Poppy...
Sir,
As of 21 Jun 17, that scroll as at DAS (Dir of Army Staff). There are a couple of offices in the process that are NOT listed in eTracker after this office. It has a few more offices to go before being signed. Once signed, it has been taking anywhere from 2-4 weeks for us to receive the signed scroll so that we can publish orders.
I do not know what the 'color coding' represents. I have asked the contractors to provide us the perimeters (meaning) or remove the color coding all together. (We have heard nothing from them!) The colors are off if you ask me....the further you go through the process, it should be going 'green' not 'red'. At the beginning, it is 'green'. (?) If you are at 123 days, you are doing good...trust me! Some are much longer and were submitted prior to your scroll. We have no control over the packets after they are sent to the Pentagon (HQDA G1).
So pretty good news even though the tracker doesn't reflect this. Keep your heads up!
Sir,
As of 21 Jun 17, that scroll as at DAS (Dir of Army Staff). There are a couple of offices in the process that are NOT listed in eTracker after this office. It has a few more offices to go before being signed. Once signed, it has been taking anywhere from 2-4 weeks for us to receive the signed scroll so that we can publish orders.
I do not know what the 'color coding' represents. I have asked the contractors to provide us the perimeters (meaning) or remove the color coding all together. (We have heard nothing from them!) The colors are off if you ask me....the further you go through the process, it should be going 'green' not 'red'. At the beginning, it is 'green'. (?) If you are at 123 days, you are doing good...trust me! Some are much longer and were submitted prior to your scroll. We have no control over the packets after they are sent to the Pentagon (HQDA G1).
So pretty good news even though the tracker doesn't reflect this. Keep your heads up!
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MAJ (Join to see)
Yeah I'm trackin Awaiting Sec of Defense approval, which apparently is our last step. There is at least three other scrolls awaiting sec def approval so hopefully that happens soon.
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MAJ (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) - I don't want to jinx it, but we've been moving a bit faster compared to other scrolls. Hopefully things are improving with this god awful process.
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