Posted on Jun 12, 2016
What is your take on Liberals and Politicians using the tragic Florida shooting as momentum to ban guns?
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50 innocent people were slain when a gunman identified as Omar S. Mateen, a 29-year-old Florida resident and U.S. citizen (who is alleged to support ISIS/ISIL) went on a shooting rampage in Orlando Florida.
Immediately, many liberals and politicians have began shouting this is the fault of guns. Articles already stating that an "assault rifle" was used. Clearly, disregarding the fact that the shooting was a lunatic who supported ISIS.
In my opinion, if guns were "banned" people would only be that much more vulnerable. Those intending to do harm would either find a weapon, or make one. A knife wielding man can take down dozens of people - a suicide bomber, even more.
This event could arguably have been stopped if someone had been open/concealed carrying in the area and taken a shot. Instead, dozens of innocent people lost their lives waiting for Law Enforcement to arrive on scene and put an end to a madman's rampage..
I'd love to hear your thoughts..
Immediately, many liberals and politicians have began shouting this is the fault of guns. Articles already stating that an "assault rifle" was used. Clearly, disregarding the fact that the shooting was a lunatic who supported ISIS.
In my opinion, if guns were "banned" people would only be that much more vulnerable. Those intending to do harm would either find a weapon, or make one. A knife wielding man can take down dozens of people - a suicide bomber, even more.
This event could arguably have been stopped if someone had been open/concealed carrying in the area and taken a shot. Instead, dozens of innocent people lost their lives waiting for Law Enforcement to arrive on scene and put an end to a madman's rampage..
I'd love to hear your thoughts..
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 66
I am a moderate, so I have some conservative, liberal, & independent ideologies. No one is going to take away gun rights unless you are a felon, have some seriously unstable MH issues, or want to start WW III. My issue is that folks are using guns to take out their animosity on a group/religion/orientation or whatever that is in conflict with their beliefs. Get cut off on the road, there's cap in your behind. Mexican/Asian/Black kids/men playing their music too loud and posturing at me? Cap in your behind. Neighbors throwing crap in your backyard? Wife leaves yo for another man/woman? Unresolved issues from childhood that carries out into anger issues as an adult? Uneasiness about your own manhood, fear of being ridiculed, or insulting of your religion because of what others are doing around you that don't affect you? Yep...that's a cap in your behind.
There are many responsible gun owners out there. And there are folks that I wouldn't want within a mile of a weapon. As a nation, we need to ensure our MH funding isn't cut, folks who have been convicted of DV/threaten harm or death to groups of people/on the Do Not Fly List do NOT have access to guns OR jobs in security that can afford these opportunities. We also need to do studies and research about this issue. I know I will get flack for it, but it's my opinion. There's even something out by Astronaut Mark Kelly & GEN Petreaus about a study on guns through Veterans Coalition for Common Sense, which many veterans and 2A advocates will be skeptical of.
I grew up in a rougher neighborhood where gun violence wasn't uncommon in & out of school, & we had weapons in the house for protection. By the time I was 14, I was wondering why the shootings in school didn't make the news. Then Columbine hit 10+ yrs, & we had so many folks wonder what could've been done to prevent the tragedy. Maybe if we had looked into trying to fix this problem in neighborhoods like mine back in the late 80s, we wouldn't have the issues in the nicer areas years later. My ex thought I was heartless for equating one with the other, but we'll never know if looking into those senseless acts of violence when I was a kid could have helped prevent the tragedies we're seeing now. And I don't want to wonder if I had done everything in my power to lessen the chance for other families to deal with the tragedy that my friends & family have experienced with some idiots with guns.
I am pro gun and there's no way in hell I would go into a club with a weapon or CCP in an urban area/large scale event in or outdoor. I was at West Hollywood Pride marching in the parade. If a shooting/threat had happened, there's no way LEO's would know who's the perp & who's the upstanding citizen trying to protect their community. There's a time & a place. This club, major events, college classrooms, in the mall is NOT the place for taking out a threat when there are innocent civilians around & also no idea of if there are others in collaboration with the original gunman laying low. You trespass on my property or break into my home? You will be shot because as a woman living with another woman,I will do what needs to be done to protect my family like anyone else.
This will be a tough issue. Doing nothing is not helping. Arguing isn't helping. What are we going to do?
There are many responsible gun owners out there. And there are folks that I wouldn't want within a mile of a weapon. As a nation, we need to ensure our MH funding isn't cut, folks who have been convicted of DV/threaten harm or death to groups of people/on the Do Not Fly List do NOT have access to guns OR jobs in security that can afford these opportunities. We also need to do studies and research about this issue. I know I will get flack for it, but it's my opinion. There's even something out by Astronaut Mark Kelly & GEN Petreaus about a study on guns through Veterans Coalition for Common Sense, which many veterans and 2A advocates will be skeptical of.
I grew up in a rougher neighborhood where gun violence wasn't uncommon in & out of school, & we had weapons in the house for protection. By the time I was 14, I was wondering why the shootings in school didn't make the news. Then Columbine hit 10+ yrs, & we had so many folks wonder what could've been done to prevent the tragedy. Maybe if we had looked into trying to fix this problem in neighborhoods like mine back in the late 80s, we wouldn't have the issues in the nicer areas years later. My ex thought I was heartless for equating one with the other, but we'll never know if looking into those senseless acts of violence when I was a kid could have helped prevent the tragedies we're seeing now. And I don't want to wonder if I had done everything in my power to lessen the chance for other families to deal with the tragedy that my friends & family have experienced with some idiots with guns.
I am pro gun and there's no way in hell I would go into a club with a weapon or CCP in an urban area/large scale event in or outdoor. I was at West Hollywood Pride marching in the parade. If a shooting/threat had happened, there's no way LEO's would know who's the perp & who's the upstanding citizen trying to protect their community. There's a time & a place. This club, major events, college classrooms, in the mall is NOT the place for taking out a threat when there are innocent civilians around & also no idea of if there are others in collaboration with the original gunman laying low. You trespass on my property or break into my home? You will be shot because as a woman living with another woman,I will do what needs to be done to protect my family like anyone else.
This will be a tough issue. Doing nothing is not helping. Arguing isn't helping. What are we going to do?
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SSG (Join to see)
Cpl Mark McMiller - There is about a 0.0% chance that there will ever be enough to take over either. There are more Christians who want to subvert the constitutions and create a theocracy then there are Muslims who want to do the same.
http://religionnews.com/2016/02/04/ted-cruzs-campaign-fueled-dominionist-vision-america-commentary/
It's highly unlikely that Dominionsts ever get the opportunity to see their wishes regarding Christianity and the US government fulfilled. Even though they will always outnumber Muslims who want the same thing for their religion.
Never trust any politician selling fear.
http://religionnews.com/2016/02/04/ted-cruzs-campaign-fueled-dominionist-vision-america-commentary/
It's highly unlikely that Dominionsts ever get the opportunity to see their wishes regarding Christianity and the US government fulfilled. Even though they will always outnumber Muslims who want the same thing for their religion.
Never trust any politician selling fear.
Ted Cruz’s campaign is fueled by a dominionist vision for America (COMMENTARY)
(RNS) When Cruz says he wants to “restore” America, he does not only have the Obama administration in mind. He wants to “restore” the U.S. to what he believes is its original identity: a Christian nation.
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Cpl Mark McMiller
SSG (Join to see) - Okay You just keep telling yourself that Muslims will never out-populate us. Are you aware that non-Muslims in our country are becoming more and more secular and having less and less children?
But just for the sake of argument, what if the Christians did take over. Do you think we would be worse off with more Christianity? Do you realize that all your good morals are Judeo-Christian values? I don't see Christians trying to murder or subjugate non-believers in the name of Christianity, do you?
Ted Cruz? Ted Cruz is a Christian -- so were our founders -- but he's also a former Supreme Court clerk and a strict Constitutionalist. That means he believes our Constitution is not a living document and should be taken at its original intent. He's one of the few that actually gets it. Liberal law professor Alan Dershowitz says he is off-the-charts brilliant.
But just for the sake of argument, what if the Christians did take over. Do you think we would be worse off with more Christianity? Do you realize that all your good morals are Judeo-Christian values? I don't see Christians trying to murder or subjugate non-believers in the name of Christianity, do you?
Ted Cruz? Ted Cruz is a Christian -- so were our founders -- but he's also a former Supreme Court clerk and a strict Constitutionalist. That means he believes our Constitution is not a living document and should be taken at its original intent. He's one of the few that actually gets it. Liberal law professor Alan Dershowitz says he is off-the-charts brilliant.
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Capt Michael Greene
Cpl Mark McMiller Maybe I didn't understand correctly what you meant by "Do you realize that all your good morals are Judeo-Christian values?" What about rape and slavery, which seem pretty much condoned in the OT and are never repudiated in the NT? Just to be sure, are you including all the laws requiring stoning and killing your children for various sins?
Where did billions of non-Christians and non-Jews get their good morals? Or are we surrounded by immoral and amoral Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Shintos, atheists, and Jains? The Dali Lama might take issue with "all your good morals are Judeo-Christian values."
As one who tries to keep up with science, I can say that moral values have evolved over time, and even had roots in mammals. Various monkeys and even horses and dogs have shown a sense of fairness. There is a strong genetic factor in morality: the theory is that individuals who lack morality tend to be punished and are less successful in reproducing.
I'm a very moral guy, and an atheist. I am quite proud of the strong moral character in my children, who are atheists.
Yet, some Christians have said that the moral rules come from the Bible. So I have a question for them. I ask them: Do you mean to say that you, yourself, would be a raping, murdering, thieving liar if you didn't have the Bible to tell you what to do?
But perhaps I misunderstood you.
Where did billions of non-Christians and non-Jews get their good morals? Or are we surrounded by immoral and amoral Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Shintos, atheists, and Jains? The Dali Lama might take issue with "all your good morals are Judeo-Christian values."
As one who tries to keep up with science, I can say that moral values have evolved over time, and even had roots in mammals. Various monkeys and even horses and dogs have shown a sense of fairness. There is a strong genetic factor in morality: the theory is that individuals who lack morality tend to be punished and are less successful in reproducing.
I'm a very moral guy, and an atheist. I am quite proud of the strong moral character in my children, who are atheists.
Yet, some Christians have said that the moral rules come from the Bible. So I have a question for them. I ask them: Do you mean to say that you, yourself, would be a raping, murdering, thieving liar if you didn't have the Bible to tell you what to do?
But perhaps I misunderstood you.
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An AR-15, AK-47, SKS, (bought in the US), are all semi-automatic, with a maximum capacity of 30, except the SKS, which is a strip loaded 10 round weapon, and there are many more varieties in this category. A Calico .22 has a top fed helical magazine that holds 100, and the Calico 9mm holds 50, which can be reloaded with a fully loaded "mag" very fast. At short range, like a night club, the .22 would be a logical weapon of choice. This weapon was manufactured in Bakersfield, California before the State started their many changes. My point is, the weapon is nothing more than a tool, it is the defective human pulling the trigger, and the never ending "up for re-election" politicians who make all weapons sound like a SADAM device (I hope some of you remember this weapon and its intended use for the Fulda Gap). The second amendment has two very good points...the legal ownership of a weapon, and the ability to use said weapon not only for self defense, but to remind those governing our country, that the citizens have the right to change corrupt politicians without the lengthy process of a vote, which today is bought by special interest groups.
When you give up your legally bought and registered weapon, you might as well leave your front door open posting a diagram to your daughters bedrooms and all your valuables, because weapons can always be obtained by the illegal method, and that is something I don't want to see. The day I can be assured the bad guys, movie stars and elected officials are not protected by individuals with guns, then we can discuss disarming. But keep in mind, Japan made very logical statements of why they would or could not invade the United States...to paraphrase (I think it was Admiral Yamamoto) that behind every tree or bush was an armed American. It not only bothers me, but scares me to see that Field Grade Officers (not combat arms) would even consider changing the second amendment.
Logically, who would spend over one billion dollars for a $400,000 dollar job, without selling promises to those who helped pay? Would you trust your children's lives on a school bus driver, close to or over 70 years of age, or one that has a history of bad health?
When you give up your legally bought and registered weapon, you might as well leave your front door open posting a diagram to your daughters bedrooms and all your valuables, because weapons can always be obtained by the illegal method, and that is something I don't want to see. The day I can be assured the bad guys, movie stars and elected officials are not protected by individuals with guns, then we can discuss disarming. But keep in mind, Japan made very logical statements of why they would or could not invade the United States...to paraphrase (I think it was Admiral Yamamoto) that behind every tree or bush was an armed American. It not only bothers me, but scares me to see that Field Grade Officers (not combat arms) would even consider changing the second amendment.
Logically, who would spend over one billion dollars for a $400,000 dollar job, without selling promises to those who helped pay? Would you trust your children's lives on a school bus driver, close to or over 70 years of age, or one that has a history of bad health?
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CPT Robert Boshears
Dear CAPT Greene (Navy? I did my first tour as a Deck Ape). No politician, other than Feinstein has come close. This would be political suicide outside California. Monterey, CA has an almost yearly event to buy weapons. My opinion only, this is a start in gun restrictions, which I believe, according to one of Alinskys tenets, was complete non-ownership of guns. Candidate Clinton wrote a thesis on Alinskys "Rules for Radicals". History shows that Hitler, Stalin and Mao did this very thing. Millions died in these countries, as they could not own weapons.
Again, using history, France and Great Britain are good examples of the people going against their own "non elected" government. We have seen a "Freely Elected Government" restrict, propose or through "midnight" Executive Orders" begin to restrict freedoms or enforce a law that may show to be a mega-billion dollar loss. (Obama Care).
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Such language has created considerable debate regarding the Amendment's intended scope. On the one hand, some believe that the Amendment's phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" creates an individual constitutional right for citizens of the United States. Under this "individual right theory," the United States Constitution restricts legislative bodies from prohibiting firearm possession, or at the very least, the Amendment renders prohibitory and restrictive regulation presumptively unconstitutional. On the other hand, some scholars point to the prefatory language "a well regulated Militia" to argue that the Framers intended only to restrict Congress from legislating away a state's right to self-defense. Scholars have come to call this theory "the collective rights theory." A collective rights theory of the Second Amendment asserts that citizens do not have an individual right to possess guns and that local, state, and federal legislative bodies therefore possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right. (Using a law library for help here). A well regulated milita (my words) is not only needed to defend an individual state, but to protect the citizens ", be it from The Indian Wars or a narrowly defined, Martial Law not for the benefit of the citizens.
Whether or not the Japanese ever intended to invade the United States is somewhat moot. Was the Aleution islands, that the 7th Infantry participated in , a feint, to draw us away from Midway or a test to see what would be done. I do believe it was Admiral Yamamoto who did say invading the United States (Lower 48) would entail finding an armed American behind every bush or tree. (This, I will look into). Logistically, Japan could not sustain such an act, but we have seen a similar, much smaller attack by Britain on the Malvinas...which cost Britain dearly.
Granted, this was my post, it reflects far many more Americans than me.
Thank you,
Again, using history, France and Great Britain are good examples of the people going against their own "non elected" government. We have seen a "Freely Elected Government" restrict, propose or through "midnight" Executive Orders" begin to restrict freedoms or enforce a law that may show to be a mega-billion dollar loss. (Obama Care).
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Such language has created considerable debate regarding the Amendment's intended scope. On the one hand, some believe that the Amendment's phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" creates an individual constitutional right for citizens of the United States. Under this "individual right theory," the United States Constitution restricts legislative bodies from prohibiting firearm possession, or at the very least, the Amendment renders prohibitory and restrictive regulation presumptively unconstitutional. On the other hand, some scholars point to the prefatory language "a well regulated Militia" to argue that the Framers intended only to restrict Congress from legislating away a state's right to self-defense. Scholars have come to call this theory "the collective rights theory." A collective rights theory of the Second Amendment asserts that citizens do not have an individual right to possess guns and that local, state, and federal legislative bodies therefore possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right. (Using a law library for help here). A well regulated milita (my words) is not only needed to defend an individual state, but to protect the citizens ", be it from The Indian Wars or a narrowly defined, Martial Law not for the benefit of the citizens.
Whether or not the Japanese ever intended to invade the United States is somewhat moot. Was the Aleution islands, that the 7th Infantry participated in , a feint, to draw us away from Midway or a test to see what would be done. I do believe it was Admiral Yamamoto who did say invading the United States (Lower 48) would entail finding an armed American behind every bush or tree. (This, I will look into). Logistically, Japan could not sustain such an act, but we have seen a similar, much smaller attack by Britain on the Malvinas...which cost Britain dearly.
Granted, this was my post, it reflects far many more Americans than me.
Thank you,
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CPT Robert Boshears
Capt Michael Greene - As Gordon Prange is deceased, this quote, or misquote...or as you stated, is "Bogus", can neither be substantiated or called an outright lie. During many of these historical writings, truth and fiction are intertwined. This neither enhances or detracts from what may have been a lower level individual speaking his mind. Again, the supposed expert, and possibly one of the few, if not the only individual to have done an intensive study on this, is dead.
You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.", according to Brooks Jackson in "Misquoting Yamamoto" at Factcheck.org (11 May 2009)[disputed—see talk page], which cites Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians", writing "I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur]".
You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.", according to Brooks Jackson in "Misquoting Yamamoto" at Factcheck.org (11 May 2009)[disputed—see talk page], which cites Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians", writing "I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur]".
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Capt Michael Greene
CPT Robert Boshears - Pretty good research for a deck ape.
10 years Navy E, then 10 years Air Force O.
10 years Navy E, then 10 years Air Force O.
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CPT Robert Boshears
Thanks Captain. Did you ever visit the cultural city of Olongapo? Ha, I did many times Navy and with a BLT. Got real shocker when the Army sent me there to command a combination of McHales Navy and F Troop. Oh, the alligator was saved when Maxine's burned down and taken to the Negrito Jungle School.
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Make gun education mandatory curriculum in schools, and give people the opportunity to defend themselves. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns. Bombs, homemade flamethrowers, biological radiation and chemical weapons, etc. The list goes on, and people can get all of the materials for the listed at their local hardware store (except biological).
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Unfortunately, BOTH sides of this argument will attempt to use the tragedy to their advantage, and personally I think it's deplorable. The ONLY concern right now should be for all the hurting families.
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Considering that it happened in a nightclub, assuming FL carry laws are similar to TX, this would be another mass shooting that happened in a "gun free zone".
Yes, there are those misguided people that will call for stricter gun laws, and history will repeat itself, the rhetoric will prompt more people who have never owned or trained with a gun to go out and buy a gun.
In other words talk of gun control leads to the opposite result as intended, it puts more guns on the street and in the hands of people who probably shouldn't have them.
Yes, there are those misguided people that will call for stricter gun laws, and history will repeat itself, the rhetoric will prompt more people who have never owned or trained with a gun to go out and buy a gun.
In other words talk of gun control leads to the opposite result as intended, it puts more guns on the street and in the hands of people who probably shouldn't have them.
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
Yes, I read somewhere that there have been record gun sales 13 months in a row...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/12/news/companies/fbi-gun-background-checks-orlando-shooting/
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/12/news/companies/fbi-gun-background-checks-orlando-shooting/
FBI gun background checks headed for another record year
As a terrorist in Orlando took 49 lives on Sunday, marking the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, gunmakers may see a sales spike.
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Is there a single FL elected official that isn't parroting the local LEOs or FBI? ATF stated he bought his firearms over the last few days. How could that happen, given background checks, and two FBI investigations in 2013/2014, regarding terrorist contacts. This is more than passes the smell test.
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SFC (Join to see)
The loop hole in buying guns with a CCW you don't have a waiting period in Florida. He slipped through the system on CCW. In fact there may have not been any reason to deny him a CCW.
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SGT Jimmy Carpenter
Well, Hillary is currently under FBI investigation and she is the democrat nominee...
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Sgt (Join to see)
If any veteran votes for crooked killary they should lose their veteran status because they fought to protect the constitution and now they want to shred the constitution
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
MCPO Roger Collins Remember Operation Fast & Furious where those who normally would never be allowed to purchase guns were allowed to do so and smuggle them back to Mexico? You know, as part of an investigation to "track" the weapon's chain of possession? You know, to catch bad guys? Mateem was on someone's radar. Could it be that he was "allowed" to purchase these weapons in hopes that it would lead to bigger terrorist 'fish'? Would that surprise you? There are people in federal LE who are quickly covering their asses, as we speak. Just sayin'...
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i agree if somebody had a weapon the numbers could have been lowered, but i will say had federal agencies talked to earch other maybe he wont have had the weapons, from all the reports on line he was investigated twice by hls, went to saudi, even though he worked in security weres the vetting and who does it, thats who we need to be asking questions, again its people that kill no matter the way dont blame guns blame those that do it
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MSG (Join to see)
history lessen hitler never banned guns, in pre ww2 the govt prior to hitler banned guns for those that opposed the govt, the nazis, especially, the only people allowed were the govt allaigned, native germans and supported the govt , hitler only used this to conrol the jews but not his own people, so quit using hitler as the face of anything
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