Posted on Dec 6, 2017
What are the repercussions of recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital?
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Is this a sound political and strategic move or will it spark even deeper division between the Palestinians and the Jewish state? Thoughts?
https://inhomelandsecurity.com/trump-forges-ahead-on-jerusalem-as-capital-despite-warnings/?utm_source=IHS&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=https:inhomelandsecurity.comtrump-forges-ahead-on-jerusalem-as-capital-despite-warnings&utm_campaign=20171206IHS
https://inhomelandsecurity.com/trump-forges-ahead-on-jerusalem-as-capital-despite-warnings/?utm_source=IHS&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=https:inhomelandsecurity.comtrump-forges-ahead-on-jerusalem-as-capital-despite-warnings&utm_campaign=20171206IHS
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 39
We have resisted doing this because it is loaded. It goes back to the destruction of the great temple. Each side has prophecy that the temple/mosque is restored, respective messiahs/prophets come etc. 1967 during the 6 day war, Israel makes the bold move to strike deep to seize the old city, after the exile. The site holds signifance for Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
Recognition of the capital as Jerusalem firmly sides with Israel and slams the door on the Arab world. It will either be a bold move or a huge road block to peace in the Levant. Let's face it, it has been strategic malaise for two decades. Tit for tat hostility going no where.
Recognition of the capital as Jerusalem firmly sides with Israel and slams the door on the Arab world. It will either be a bold move or a huge road block to peace in the Levant. Let's face it, it has been strategic malaise for two decades. Tit for tat hostility going no where.
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CPO (Join to see)
LTC Jason Mackay SP5 Larry Morris Recognition of the capital as Jerusalem firmly sides with Israel and may slam the door on any religion they don't like.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12064754/Jewish-extremist-leader-says-Christmas-has-no-place-in-the-Holy-Land.html
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20160924-extremist-jewish-settlers-attack-christians-in-jerusalem/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12104389/Death-to-heathen-Christians-scrawled-on-walls-of-Jerusalems-Dormition-Abbey.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11786802/Burning-of-Christian-churches-in-Israel-justified-far-Right-Jewish-leader-says.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12064754/Jewish-extremist-leader-says-Christmas-has-no-place-in-the-Holy-Land.html
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20160924-extremist-jewish-settlers-attack-christians-in-jerusalem/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/12104389/Death-to-heathen-Christians-scrawled-on-walls-of-Jerusalems-Dormition-Abbey.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11786802/Burning-of-Christian-churches-in-Israel-justified-far-Right-Jewish-leader-says.html
Jewish extremist leader says Christmas has 'no place' in the Holy Land
Faith and anti-racism groups call for police investigation into incitement to violence after Lehava head calls for Christian 'vampires' to be expelled from Israel and Christmas banned
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CW2 Jo Alistair
There will be no peace in the Middle East. Peace was always nothing but a pipe dream. As such we did not slam the door against the Arab world. They already called us the Big Satan. Israel is only the Little Satan. Yes, the muslims hate Israel, but they hate America more.
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CW2 Jo Alistair
CPO (Join to see) - The key to your posting is that it is a Jewish EXTREMIST. When you go to Israel you will find that all religious sites are protected by the government of Israel. This is for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bahai, Druze or any other religious group. However, when you go to sites governed by the Palestinian Authority not only will you find it unsafe to visit those sites, they are often vandalized.
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My guess is a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth, but at the end of the day kind of a nothing burger.
We will get demonstrations for a while. Maybe a bombing. Unfortunately, it is par for the course over there.
The most lasting consequence is that the USA is unlikely to be able to get the Palestinian Authority to sit at a table for talks unless we reverse this decision. It might be a reality that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel and has been for decades, but the Palestinians will never concede that point.
Additionally, we are likely to get some negative feedback from some of the Muslim nations in the region.
Not really sure what the motive was to do this now.
If you ask me, the motive is to yell "SQUIRREL!" and get everyone to look at this instead of the Judge Moore endorsement.
We will get demonstrations for a while. Maybe a bombing. Unfortunately, it is par for the course over there.
The most lasting consequence is that the USA is unlikely to be able to get the Palestinian Authority to sit at a table for talks unless we reverse this decision. It might be a reality that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel and has been for decades, but the Palestinians will never concede that point.
Additionally, we are likely to get some negative feedback from some of the Muslim nations in the region.
Not really sure what the motive was to do this now.
If you ask me, the motive is to yell "SQUIRREL!" and get everyone to look at this instead of the Judge Moore endorsement.
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1SG (Join to see)
CPO (Join to see) - We may not agree, but I would say the odds are better for us than the Israelis and Palestinians.
For what it is worth, the 1967 war started for the same reason the Suez war broke out - the Egyptians closed the strait entering the Red Sea to Israeli shipping to the port of Eliat. The Israelis launched a preemptive strike on the Egyptian Air Force and seized the Sinai peninsula, true, but the Jordanians and Syrians launched their portion of the six-day war at Egypt's behest without any direct provocation from Israel. As a result, Jordan lost the West Bank (Palestinian land which they were occupying), Syria lost the Golan Heights, and Egypt lost the Gaza Strip (Palestinian land that they were occupying) and the Sinai.
When I say an "all out attack from all sides", I was referring to 1948 specifically, but I could also say the same of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.
I am pretty well-read on these conflicts, not just a shill for Israel.
For what it is worth, the 1967 war started for the same reason the Suez war broke out - the Egyptians closed the strait entering the Red Sea to Israeli shipping to the port of Eliat. The Israelis launched a preemptive strike on the Egyptian Air Force and seized the Sinai peninsula, true, but the Jordanians and Syrians launched their portion of the six-day war at Egypt's behest without any direct provocation from Israel. As a result, Jordan lost the West Bank (Palestinian land which they were occupying), Syria lost the Golan Heights, and Egypt lost the Gaza Strip (Palestinian land that they were occupying) and the Sinai.
When I say an "all out attack from all sides", I was referring to 1948 specifically, but I could also say the same of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.
I am pretty well-read on these conflicts, not just a shill for Israel.
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CPO (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - We are doing much better than the Palestinians and Israelis. However I disagree (surprise!) with you on the next point. Israel invaded Egypt in Oct 1956 at the behest of Britain and France. Britain was pissed off that Egypt took the Suez out of British control in Jul 1956 and they wanted it back.
The 1936 Anglo-Egyptian Treaty proclaimed Egypt to be an independent sovereign state, but allowed for British troops to continue to be stationed in the Suez Canal zone until 1956. Egypt's Wafd government unilaterally abrogated in 1951. Egypt's Nasser government got UK to agreed to withdraw its troops in the 1954 Anglo–Egyptian Agreement. When Britain and U.S. withdrew funding for the Aswan Dam, Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal in Jul 1956, technically in violation of the 1954 agreement. Britain led the effort behind the scenes colluding with Israel and France to retake control of the Suez Canal and to remove Nasser from power. President Eisenhower was incensed. International pressure, together with the threat of Soviet intervention, forced Britain, France and Israel to withdraw from Egypt.
The results of the 1967 war were determined once the Egyptian air force was destroyed, but you are forgetting the Egyptian-Jordanian Mutual Defense Treaty. Israel's attack on Egypt was a direct provocation in the same way an attack on NATO would provoke us. Jordan suffered the worse in that war. About 70% of Jordan’s agricultural land, producing up to 65% of its fruits and vegetables, was located in the West Bank. Half of Jordan’s industrial establishments were in the West Bank, while the loss of Jerusalem and other religious sites devastated the tourism industry. Altogether, territory lost to Israel had accounted for about 38% of Jordan’s gross national product prior to June 1967.
I find it strange how some people cannot understand why Arab nations are upset with the U.S. IMHO, had Nixon/Kissinger not ordered Operation Nickel Grass for the U.S. to provide Israel endless emergency resupply and reequip, it is unlikely Israel would have been able to successful counterattack in 1973. Israel also violated the cease fire and continued their invasion and encirclement of Egyptian forces under a white flag. However, was 1973 truly an Arab-Israeli war or just another proxy war between the U.S. and USSR? Especially given the Soviet threat of intervention and out DEFCON III alert.
It seems like some posts have changed during the course of our debate over the past week?
The 1936 Anglo-Egyptian Treaty proclaimed Egypt to be an independent sovereign state, but allowed for British troops to continue to be stationed in the Suez Canal zone until 1956. Egypt's Wafd government unilaterally abrogated in 1951. Egypt's Nasser government got UK to agreed to withdraw its troops in the 1954 Anglo–Egyptian Agreement. When Britain and U.S. withdrew funding for the Aswan Dam, Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal in Jul 1956, technically in violation of the 1954 agreement. Britain led the effort behind the scenes colluding with Israel and France to retake control of the Suez Canal and to remove Nasser from power. President Eisenhower was incensed. International pressure, together with the threat of Soviet intervention, forced Britain, France and Israel to withdraw from Egypt.
The results of the 1967 war were determined once the Egyptian air force was destroyed, but you are forgetting the Egyptian-Jordanian Mutual Defense Treaty. Israel's attack on Egypt was a direct provocation in the same way an attack on NATO would provoke us. Jordan suffered the worse in that war. About 70% of Jordan’s agricultural land, producing up to 65% of its fruits and vegetables, was located in the West Bank. Half of Jordan’s industrial establishments were in the West Bank, while the loss of Jerusalem and other religious sites devastated the tourism industry. Altogether, territory lost to Israel had accounted for about 38% of Jordan’s gross national product prior to June 1967.
I find it strange how some people cannot understand why Arab nations are upset with the U.S. IMHO, had Nixon/Kissinger not ordered Operation Nickel Grass for the U.S. to provide Israel endless emergency resupply and reequip, it is unlikely Israel would have been able to successful counterattack in 1973. Israel also violated the cease fire and continued their invasion and encirclement of Egyptian forces under a white flag. However, was 1973 truly an Arab-Israeli war or just another proxy war between the U.S. and USSR? Especially given the Soviet threat of intervention and out DEFCON III alert.
It seems like some posts have changed during the course of our debate over the past week?
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SCPO (Join to see)
CPO D C: When I became a Freemason many, many moons ago, I did need to be invited. The advance of Time has changed things. Years ago, a late Pope decreed that Catholics can join, and no one needs to be asked to join. Today, a man, aged 18 and older, fills out a petition and, if all is well, he can join his local Masonic Lodge. I know a number of Jewish Brothers, including one, now deceased, who was one of the finest men I've ever had the honour of knowing. My life has been diminished by his physical absence.
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Sgt Matthew Askew
I don’t think it was a distraction, the President never backed off his support of Moore. How can you have peace when most Arab nations do not recognize Israel anyway. There has been trouble there since Israel was re-established. Moving the Capital to Jerusalem will not significantly change the views towards the U.S. There is always a reason to protest. Hezbollah is an Irainian backed terrorist organization, so what are the real prospects for peace.
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Lets say, to avoid a political debate, its a sound and strategic move. It will still cause a larger rift between the two factions. Although I'm not shocked in the least that Kushner wasn't able to bring about peace in the middle east... haha
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CPO (Join to see)
PO3 Donald Murphy - "The 1967 six day war was a result of Egypt and her allies cutting off Israel's water supply. That's a strategic move. That's the same as a "nuke" from a "lets go to war" perspective. You can't live without water, right?"
In 1919, the Zionist delegation at the Paris Peace Conference said the Golan Heights, Jordan valley, what is now the West Bank, as well as Lebanon's river Litani were "essential for the necessary economic foundation of the country."
In the early 1960s, Israel was building a canal system to take water from the Sea of Galilee that would enable it to support far more settlers throughout Isreal. The Arab League (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine) decided in 1964 that "the diversion of the Jordan waters by (Israel) multiplies the dangers to Arab existence" and hoped to prevent a massive influx of more Jewish immigrants. The Jordan River Headwater Diversion Plan was approved by the Arab League in 1964. Marginally feasible, the technically difficult and extremely expensive project began work in 1965. If successful it could have reduced Israel's overall water supply by about 11%, but in April 1967 Israel exploited a border incident as pretext to bomb the diversion project deep in Syrian territory; effectively halting the diversion effort.
Since 1962, nearly half of the Arab League were at war against each other in Yemen. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the UK supported the royalists. Egypt supported the republicans. Jordan dropped out in 1963, but in 1967 Egypt and Saudi Arabia were still fighting each other. In fact, Egyptian historians refer to the Yemen civil war as Egypt's Vietnam.
So the Arab League had been fighting each other for years. Israel's water supply was never cut off. The threat to Israel's water supply and continued immigration was eliminated in April 1967. But in June 1967, Israel invaded Egypt then Jordan and the West Bank capturing some of the same territory the Zionists said they wanted in 1919.
Yes, water is said to be one of the factors for Israel attacking her neighbors in June 1967 but it was hardly *the* reason.
In 1919, the Zionist delegation at the Paris Peace Conference said the Golan Heights, Jordan valley, what is now the West Bank, as well as Lebanon's river Litani were "essential for the necessary economic foundation of the country."
In the early 1960s, Israel was building a canal system to take water from the Sea of Galilee that would enable it to support far more settlers throughout Isreal. The Arab League (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine) decided in 1964 that "the diversion of the Jordan waters by (Israel) multiplies the dangers to Arab existence" and hoped to prevent a massive influx of more Jewish immigrants. The Jordan River Headwater Diversion Plan was approved by the Arab League in 1964. Marginally feasible, the technically difficult and extremely expensive project began work in 1965. If successful it could have reduced Israel's overall water supply by about 11%, but in April 1967 Israel exploited a border incident as pretext to bomb the diversion project deep in Syrian territory; effectively halting the diversion effort.
Since 1962, nearly half of the Arab League were at war against each other in Yemen. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the UK supported the royalists. Egypt supported the republicans. Jordan dropped out in 1963, but in 1967 Egypt and Saudi Arabia were still fighting each other. In fact, Egyptian historians refer to the Yemen civil war as Egypt's Vietnam.
So the Arab League had been fighting each other for years. Israel's water supply was never cut off. The threat to Israel's water supply and continued immigration was eliminated in April 1967. But in June 1967, Israel invaded Egypt then Jordan and the West Bank capturing some of the same territory the Zionists said they wanted in 1919.
Yes, water is said to be one of the factors for Israel attacking her neighbors in June 1967 but it was hardly *the* reason.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
CPO (Join to see) - Israel covered all of its bases politically. It made entreaties to the UN, it notified legal/civil authorities, etc. Now, its possible that they were ruses, but the goal was to "get on record" Israel's complaints. Note that the UN actually voted on the item twice. So despite the information you point out, everyone for and against Israel was aware that Israel had a water problem "on record." So Israel was able to justify its urgency whether the urgency was false flag or not.
Irrespective, my literary goal in mentioning it was to show that Israel does not need us to protect itself.
Irrespective, my literary goal in mentioning it was to show that Israel does not need us to protect itself.
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CPO (Join to see)
PO3 Donald Murphy - You're right. The U.S. should never have executed Operation Nickel Grass to save Israel in 1973.
False flags are not justification. They are lies that do not stand the test of time. Additionally, if the threat to their water was resolved in April, it cannot be used to justify an attack in June. The water issue didn't threaten their existence, it only threatened their continued expansion.
False flags are not justification. They are lies that do not stand the test of time. Additionally, if the threat to their water was resolved in April, it cannot be used to justify an attack in June. The water issue didn't threaten their existence, it only threatened their continued expansion.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
CPO (Join to see) - Again - not doubting your take on it. But the paper trail speaks different. The paper trail says that their water was endangered. The fact that it physically may or may not have been is a battle between your authors and mine*. Remember that the USA was not Israel's bestest bud in June of 1967. UN voting backs that up as well as ambivalence of the USA towards Israel. This is why you'll get USS Liberty mere hours later... At the time, we could have used their false flag as reason to not further relations with Israel. Oh but wait...Soviets wanted to build a sub base in Haifa. "Like I said, we've A L W A Y S been Israel's friend..." Yeah right...
Yom Kippur is Israel down to its last squadron and all "in the know" knew which squadron that was. Israel alerted its new bested bud America, that an invisible line had been drawn in the sand and should that line get crossed, there will be a glass shower in Damascus, Cairo and Riyahd. In the time it took JCOS to read the "in the clear" message which the Soviet contingent also conveniently got, the situation turned in Israel's favor. Moscow received notification that the arab goal was not "holocaust 2.0" but merely to teach Israel a lesson. They did not get to Damascus in time to tell the Syrians to pull the plug on the operation or face fallout (figuratively and physically...). All figured that since IDF had turned the tide that all would stop (as everyone knew by the communique that Israel didn't have the toys to continue a war). Israel then headed towards Damascus, started its prisoner killing and took the Golan in full. Moscow got a hold of Mossad and advised them against going any further. Thats when the war stopped.
Spy Catcher - Peter Wright
Six Days In June - Eric Hammell
Shield Of The Republic: The United States Navy - Michael Isenberg
For Heaven's Sake: Squadron 201 And The Yom Kippur War - Aviram Barkai
Yom Kippur is Israel down to its last squadron and all "in the know" knew which squadron that was. Israel alerted its new bested bud America, that an invisible line had been drawn in the sand and should that line get crossed, there will be a glass shower in Damascus, Cairo and Riyahd. In the time it took JCOS to read the "in the clear" message which the Soviet contingent also conveniently got, the situation turned in Israel's favor. Moscow received notification that the arab goal was not "holocaust 2.0" but merely to teach Israel a lesson. They did not get to Damascus in time to tell the Syrians to pull the plug on the operation or face fallout (figuratively and physically...). All figured that since IDF had turned the tide that all would stop (as everyone knew by the communique that Israel didn't have the toys to continue a war). Israel then headed towards Damascus, started its prisoner killing and took the Golan in full. Moscow got a hold of Mossad and advised them against going any further. Thats when the war stopped.
Spy Catcher - Peter Wright
Six Days In June - Eric Hammell
Shield Of The Republic: The United States Navy - Michael Isenberg
For Heaven's Sake: Squadron 201 And The Yom Kippur War - Aviram Barkai
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