Posted on Jun 16, 2015
MAJ Senior Observer   Controller/Trainer
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Iknoor singh 600x400
A Federal Judge has ruled that Iknoor Singh's adherence to his Sikh faith - wearing facial hair, keeping his hair long, but wrapped in a turban, and carrying a sharp knife on his person - would not diminish his capacity to serve the nation he loves, the United States of America, as a future Officer in the United States Army. Do you feel too many allowances are being made for his faith or do you feel he should be welcomed into the ranks if he can successfully fulfill the requirements for Commissioning? What say you, RP?
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(Note: Full article added by RP Staff.)

MINEOLA, NY — A Sikh college student from New York said Monday he is excited about a federal court decision that will permit him to enroll in the U.S. Army's Reserve Officer Training Corps without shaving his beard, cutting his hair, or removing his turban.

U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson issued the ruling Friday in Washington, D.C., saying 20-year-old Iknoor Singh's adherence to his religious beliefs would not diminish his ability to serve in the military.

"I didn't believe it at first when I heard about the decision," said Singh, who lives in the New York City borough of Queens.

He told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Monday: "It was kind of surreal. This is something I have been fighting for for two or three years. I'm excited and nervous; very excited to learn."

Singh, who will be a junior next fall studying finance and business analytics at Hofstra University on Long Island, said he has had a lifelong interest in public service. He speaks four languages — English, Punjabi, Hindi, and Urdu — and he said he wants to work in military intelligence.

"Becoming an officer is not an easy thing," he conceded. "You have to be proficient in many areas."

Sikhism, a 500-year-old religion founded in India, requires its male followers to wear a turban and beard and keep their hair uncut.

Under a policy announced last year, troops can seek waivers on a case-by-case basis to wear religious clothing, seek prayer time or engage in religious practices. Approval depends on where the service member is stationed and whether the change would affect military readiness or the mission.

Currently, only a few Sikhs serve in the U.S. Army who have been granted religious accommodations.

In her ruling, Jackson said, "It is difficult to see how accommodating plaintiff's religious exercise would do greater damage to the Army's compelling interests in uniformity, discipline, credibility, unit cohesion, and training than the tens of thousands of medical shaving profiles the Army has already granted."

Army spokesman, Lt. Col. Ben Garrett, said in a statement the decision is currently being examined. "The Army takes pride in sustaining a culture where all personnel are treated with dignity and respect and not discriminated against based on race, color, religion, gender and national origin," he said.

Hofstra spokeswoman Karla Schuster said in a statement that the university "supports Mr. Singh's desire to serve his country, as well as his right to religious expression and practice. We are pleased that the courts have affirmed that he can do both as a member of the ROTC."

Gurjot Kaur, senior staff attorney for the Sikh Coalition, said the decision was "an important victory in the fight for religious freedom. We urge the Pentagon to eliminate the discriminatory loopholes in its policies and give all Americans an equal opportunity to serve in our nation's armed forces."

The American Civil Liberties Union and a group called United Sikhs jointly represented Singh in the case.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/sikh-student-queens-clear-join-army-rotc-article-1.2259423
Posted in these groups: World religions 2 ReligionThcapm08l9 ROTCDiversity Diversity
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SGM Matthew Quick
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Judge
Very unfortunate decision...especially when it's coming from someone who's never served.

"In her ruling, U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson said, "It is difficult to see how accommodating plaintiff's religious exercise would do greater damage to the Army's compelling interests in uniformity, discipline, credibility, unit cohesion, and training than the tens of thousands of medical shaving profiles the Army has already granted."

HOWEVER...Judge (Amy Berman Jackson): Lawsuit in Petraeus scandal can proceed
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/15/judge-lawsuit-in-petraeus-scandal-can-proceed/
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
Lt Col (Join to see)
>1 y
I'd say she's absolutely right, at least in her logic. How can you honestly say that allowing this student to retain his beard is a huge impact to cohesion or discipline when we grant thousands of shaving waivers for other reasons? How can we claim that this one beard is the tipping point, when almost all of our SOF guys grow full beards while in the field?
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SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
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Some of you might want to educate yourselves on the Sikhs' record of military service in the British Empire, independent India, and elsewhere. Despite comprising a mere 2% of the Indian population, they have consistently represented 20% or more of the armed forces, and many of the nation's top officers are Sikh. The idea that the uniform makes the soldier is ridiculous. Our special forces and others routinely wear beards and grow their hair long in theater. What is the problem with providing Sikhs the right to do so, albeit on a regular basis? In there religion, men MUST wear the 5 Ks, which include the beard and long hair, and the turban has essentially become the 6th requirement of physical appearance. Your argument for tradition for the sake of tradition is foolhardy and flies in the face of logic and the changing demographics of our country. Such thinking also borders on violating freedom of religion. Yes, military service is voluntary, but such selfless service should not be denied to people simply because they don't fit the stereotype long associated with the American service member.
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SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
>1 y
This bogus "tradition" of cookie cutter soldiers has a very short story in the American military, and those promoting it as the norm have obviously paid precious little attention to American history.
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SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
>1 y
Israelis have been using beard friendly masks for years to accommodate Orthodox Jews. The Sikhs have been sealing their masks fine by tying their beards out of the way. No biggie:
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SFC Boots Attaway
SFC Boots Attaway
>1 y
TSgt Joshua Copeland - We had them in the Army back in the 70s and 80s. Beards, turbans and all.
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SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
SPC Dr. Ernest Rockwell
>1 y
End of story
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Maj Mof Oic
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This is ridiculous and inappropriate to our regulations. You either conform to uniform requirements within the regulations or you don;t serve. We have regulations for a reason- if you allow this you must allow for all people to serve to be able to wear a beard and different covers. the reasoning behind this regulation is for dress and appearance, personal hygiene, & chemical warfare gas mask requirements. Conforming to this based on religion is wrong. Don't get me wrong I would love to have my bard and serve, but I am not allowed t do so as I conform to our regulations. So what is next- we allow people with religious believes such as white supremacy with swastika tattoos to serve and have them - that is what there religion is- is it not?
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Maj Mof Oic
Maj (Join to see)
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SGT (Join to see) - They are in uniform only by a current allowance- not by the regulation- similar to a waiver. What is allowed for one should be allowed for all is what I am saying- if they want total Political Correctness now. I have no problem with religious freedom or him wanting to serve, but in this case they are allowing him to proclaim his religion in uniform & go against dress and appearance regulations all the time. So how can you tell any other religions they cannot proclaim their faith outside of their uniform or show their faith. For instance: How can you instruct a subordinate they cannot have their cross necklace or Star of David showing showing outside their uniform but the Sikh can show their faith with their beards and Turban.
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Maj Mof Oic
Maj (Join to see)
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SGT (Join to see) - They are in uniform only by a current allowance- not by the regulation- similar to a waiver. What is allowed for one should be allowed for all is what I am saying- if they want total Political Correctness now. I have no problem with religious freedom or him wanting to serve, but in this case they are allowing him to proclaim his religion in uniform & go against dress and appearance regulations all the time. So how can you tell any other religions they cannot proclaim their faith outside of their uniform or show their faith. For instance: How can you instruct a subordinate they cannot have their cross necklace or Star of David showing showing outside their uniform but the Sikh can show their faith with their beards and Turban.
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
Lt Col (Join to see)
9 y
Maj (Join to see) - Is there a legitimate religious need to do this? Does the bible explicitly tell people they must wear a cross necklace? Is there somewhere in the Torah where it mentions the Star of David?
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SPC Counterintelligence Agent
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I view this as a positive step forward.
Two reasons.
First, I think this is a good step towards allowing a mustache that doesn't resemble Hitler's and possibly beards for all in the future.
Second, people with beards can now serve as a warning to others in a chemical/biological environment. If people with beards keep dropping, the agent has not dispersed sufficiently to remove the protective mask.
This is a win for everybody.
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Sgt Jay Jones
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I am all for freedom of religion. It is one of the founding principles of our country as well as our constitution. However, when a person makes the "choice" to serve our country we are agreeing to come under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. This code calls for certain conduct and standards. To allow exemptions to those standards undermine the effectiveness of the Military. The military takes a broad approach to our religious freedoms, but not to the detriment of good militants effectiveness and discipline. So, to answer the original question, No!
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
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D1153a23
Would you feel the same about this Jewish chaplain?
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SGT Jeremiah B.
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This is an ROTC program, right? I don't think it's quite the same as setting military policy, even if it makes no sense whatsoever. ROTC is not a club. If he has no chance of a commission, he shouldn't even be there.
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
>1 y
It's not the military, but it's a step into the military. They're just chipping away at the foundation.
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
Lt Col (Join to see)
>1 y
Well, we commissioned two Sikhs in 2010 into active duty. So, clearly, he has a chance of commissioning.
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SFC Steven Steingiesser
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I have no problem with them changing the policy to allow people who add to the military to be able to serve. There is nothing sacred to the uniform, so little so that I am about to wear my 4th camouflage pattern since joining. Why stop one with strong personal convictions from joining? Though personally I hope the start changing the grooming standards. Garrison combat beards for everyone.
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
>1 y
SFC Steven Steingiesser, during deployments some us went out the wire had beards to increase contact with locals so yes let us grow beards.
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CSM Information Operations Planner
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Army Regulations are subordinate to the US Constitution. Despite the experience of the last few decades, the US Army has a longer history Sikhs serving in war and peace with religious paraphernalia intact (since World War I) than it has had the current broad (but waiverable) ban on beards.
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COL Jeff Williams
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We let or tolerate SOF wearing beards, so why not?
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Maj Mike Sciales
Maj Mike Sciales
>1 y
Efc49163
Nobody gassed yet.
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Maj Mike Sciales
Maj Mike Sciales
>1 y
1c09e396
I remember being called "A fu**ing hippie" in 1972 because I had my sideburns at the lowest opening of my ear and my mustache went past the vermillion of my lip and beyond the corners of my mouth." In 1992 I listened to a First Sergeant tell a Troop his "high and tight" was a fad haircut. In 2003 I listened to some moron in Oakleys chewing a troop for wearing Ray Bans - the original USAF sunglasses. It's all so cyclical and mainly because the old guys like the status quo. How long did it take the USAF to understand that the Soviet Union had gone away? I know we played loads of exercises that involved fighting red forces in Europe. My point is we talk about being flexible -- now we have to get there in our own heads. If you are in a garrison somewhere being bored you can starch your uniform and shave as closely as you desire, but if you are really concentrating on "Survive to Operate" then you understand that we don't fight asymmetrical wars on parade fields. Yes, basic training teaches them how to operate as a unit. Good for them. Now we winnow out many and find the few we can mold into operators who can STO in any location by themselves if need be. Beards in the middle east blend and it is all about blending. When "one of us is not like the other" there is no hesitation, you will be recognized, but an unkempt beard? You can't fake that and once you are dismissed you are invisible.
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CPT Military Police
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
Sir I was thinking the same thing about the SOF beards. I can still remember the first time I saw one of those guys at a forward POL site.
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Maj Mike Sciales
Maj Mike Sciales
>1 y
CPT (Join to see) - You absolutely have to look the part. Wearing the gear correctly, beard style, hygienic standards, eating the local food - plenty of garlic, you have to smell indigenous to be indigenous. Some people were just too locked into garrison mentality.
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PO2 Steven Erickson
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Edited >1 y ago
Duke mind
I promise to serve my country unconditionally!

But... I have this teeny weeny list of conditions here that shouldn't be a big deal, OK?

Oh... Yeah... and I have to have my chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream on Saturday night at bedtime. It's REALLY IMPORTANT to my personal identity as an overweight old guy.
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PO1 Henry Sherrill
PO1 Henry Sherrill
>1 y
I believe that if a person wants to join the US Military, regardless of their religion, they should be able to, but only if they are qualified to do so. No criminal record, no ties to radical groups, and a willingness to give their life to defend this nations way of life, as well as their fellow service member.
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PO2 Steven Erickson
PO2 Steven Erickson
>1 y
PO1 Henry Sherrill, I agree with everything you posted. I would also add "comply with the rules and regulations of the military" to your stated list...

My issue with these accommodations is that - by definition - the person is asking to be treated in a special way that the person KNOWS to be in conflict with some of the most basic tenets of a uniformed, professional military.

In my work (commercial nuclear power), if you are unable or unwilling to be clean-shaven, you CAN NOT obtain respirator qualifications (the masks don't seal unless the contact areas are clean-shaven). Any person whose potential work would REQUIRE the use of a respirator would therefore be DISQUALIFIED to fill that position. So, if I am UNWILLING to comply with KNOWN requirements of the job (military?), then I should be disappointed, and look elsewhere, NOT try to change the job requirements.

The bottom line... what's it worth? If you aren't willing to comply with the stated rules and regulations of a VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION, seems like you aren't willing to make the sacrifices that are PART of that organization.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
Col Joseph Lenertz
>1 y
LOL! I ALSO want my chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream, but on Sunday night. OK? Oh...I'd also like to use any bathroom I choose...due to my variable self-defining syndrome.
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