Posted on Nov 6, 2013
CPT Chemical, Biological, Radiological & Nuclear Officer
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I have seen  NCOER's where it says there were 4 "later, later,later" counseling's that went on during the rating period but the soldier being rated got a "S" on every dimension. From my point of view, if there were actually professional development counselings going on, how come the soldier is only meeting the standard? Should we, as leaders and rater, give them guidance on what they need to do to exceed the standard during those counselings?

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Responses: 9
CPT Aaron Kletzing
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Yes, leaders should be held accountable for substandard/non-existent developmental counselings and follow-on actions.  I actually counseled my Platoon Sergeant every 2 months -- he was an incredible NCO and mentor, and it was very beneficial for us to have these sessions because I'd end up learning a lot from him -- plus, all of the counseling statements I wrote resulted in a great packet for him when I gave him an awesome NCOER, which he earned.
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SSG Jim Handy
SSG Jim Handy
11 y
You seem like someone I would have liked to work for. You must have worked with some good NCO's when you were an LT.
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SFC Charles S.
SFC Charles S.
11 y
Sir, couldn't have said it better.  A leader who is not leading is not a leader.  If you are not providing some kind of feedback to your subordinates whether good or bad... they will continue to march... off a cliff or into the history books.  Most Soldiers have good intentions and want to do well.  They do not get up in the morning stating they want to be dirt bags.  In the absence of good counseling they will only do what they know to do and nothing further.  Without corrective statements or positive laudatory comments Soldiers will never have the knowledge to try to get any better than they are.
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SP5 Tom Carlson
SP5 Tom Carlson
>1 y
I was a spec 5, and lacking a platoon SGt. I was acting, our Platoon leader was placed if Reduction in Force, and a cw2 That had applied for direct commission took over platoon leader duties and made it very clear he was in charge and direct all questions to him not me, and he would counsel me as needed.. so my men and I always did exactly as he said when he said it. and offered nothing more he made it clear he was the thinker and we were the worker,drones.. 4 mos later did he NOT get a commission but was on the reduction in force List.... some 8 years later he showed up at my place of business we had a small helicopter company charters and ans a couple of government contract forest service USGS etc. he answered an add for a helicopter pilot position.. you should have seen his face when he was introduced to me as director of maintenance and personnel.... He was shocked when I took him to the hangar and to meet his fellow pilots.. up to elbows in grease and or on the wash rack...he said he was a pilot and was not going to put in 10 hours a week helping mechanics.. I sad okay... and told there was no position for him here..
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MAJ Aviation Combined Arms Operations
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Counseling has definitely fallen by the wayside during the GWOT.  "Payday activities" (remember them?) were a day to catch up on counseling soldiers. 

In my opinion, soldiers should be given an initial counseling when they get to the unit, routine (quarterly?) counseling identifying key performance objectives, and of course, event-oriented counseling.

During routine counseling, leaders definitely need to help the soldier identify their key career goals, and formulate a plan to help achieve those goals.  Again, this was one of the first things to fall by the wayside during high personnel turnover during the GWOT.  I hope it's one of the first things to come back.
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SP5 Tom Carlson
SP5 Tom Carlson
>1 y
It is tooo bad ncos and senior ncos do not fill reviews of their officers.. Had one Capt. who I traduced to my platoon Capt. and he said to her,, do you know who I am and she replied yes your Capt.XXXX and my husbands OIC. he replied Yes and you can call me Les, gave him his phone number and said call me anytime,, and your husband has to call me sir or Captain...so one day two lowboys pulled up to the orderly room and asked where they wanted the two anchors dropped off.. He was the supply Officer.. and no one ever knew who ordered them But his signature was on the request..
to this day I wonder how many aviation companies have anchors in their inventory
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LTC Cavalry Officer
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Counseling isn't optional; it is mandated by Army regulation. Soldiers, deserve to know what they do well and what they need to improve. That's how people and organizations get better.

The more thought is put into initial counseling by outlining expectations, norms, and standards, the easier "maintenance" counseling by monthly, quarterly, and corrective counseling is.
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CSM Joseph Mitchell
CSM Joseph Mitchell
11 y
I agree, if a Soldier is not counseled or if the counseling is done just to check the block and not done with the correct intent it has no effect. If a Soldier is not provided honest feedback on their performance they will assume they are doing a good job and will not change how they do business. This will only lead to problems later in their career and their future leaders will have a hard time getting them focused.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
CPT Aaron Kletzing
11 y
MAJ Kranc and SGM Mitchell explained the situation perfectly in my opinion.  Leaders like these two gentlemen are the ones that genuinely care about professionally developing subordinates and creating positive challenges for personnel to aspire to achieve.  I'd also add that as a 1LT, when I counseled my Platoon Sergeant ("Smoke" in the FA world), he would end up teaching me a lot one-on-one.  Effective counseling can really make or break a unit.
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SFC Signal Support Systems Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
11 y
Sir, That is not 100% correct. There is currently no regulatory guidance that dictates monthly counseling for Soldiers.
AR 600-20 used to explicitly require monthly counseling. It has been changed to read the following:

2-3. Perfomance counseling

Commanders will ensure that all members of their command receive timely performance counseling. Effective performance counseling of officers, noncommissioned officers (NCO), enlisted Soldiers and DA Civilians employees helps to ensure that they are prepared to carry out their duties efficiently and accomplish the mission. AR 623-3 contains counseling requirements for in conjunction with evaluation reporting requirements. Unit commanders will determine the timing and specific methods used to provide guidance and direction through counseling. FM 6.22 provides advice and makes suggestions concerning effective counseling. Providing regular and effective performance counseling to all Soldiers, not just those whose performance fails to meet unit standards, is a command function. All commanders will ensure that their subordinate commanders have implemented and are maintaining an effective performance counseling program.

That being said it is an absolute necessity that NCO's counsel Soldiers to aid on development. FM 7-22.7 states: Soldiers want to be counseled and will
respond to counseling because they want to know what it takes to be
successful in today’s Army. Regardless of your leadership position, your
soldiers see you as successful simply because you have achieved the level they
are striving to accomplish. Leaders must provide each of their soldiers with the
best possible road map to success.
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