Posted on Sep 15, 2018
Should a retired Major General not have the "(Ret.)" designation assigned to their identification, so as not to misrepresent their authority?
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Should a retired Major General, be in command of Soldiers? Why does that not violate AR 600-20 para 1-5a.? Is this unique to California? Would it be fraud waste and abuse, to put a civilian into a position requiring federal recognition, such that the position now requires two personnel to perform the functions of a single federally recognized GO? http://www.nationalguard.mil/portals/31/Features/ngbgomo/bio/1/1972.html https://calguard.ca.gov/army/
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 4
This is actually not an issue at all.
If the state wanted to say that I was a Major General and the AG. They could and in the state I would be.
Outside the state I would still be a Major.
Michigan's TAG is also a retired officer.
If the state wanted to say that I was a Major General and the AG. They could and in the state I would be.
Outside the state I would still be a Major.
Michigan's TAG is also a retired officer.
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SPC (Join to see)
How would something like that play out if working with Active or Reserves, but under the state? You'd be considered a Major General since you're in the state and in traditional Guard status, but I'd assume you technically wouldn't outrank anyone higher than your true rank of major since their rank was granted by the Federal Government where as your stars only from State Government.
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SSG (Join to see)
Thanks MAJ. Does the Michigan TAG have "ret" after their identification? With the "dual mandate".. I'd also ask if there's a difference between the legitimacy of a federally recognized officer being put into an AG position, and a civilian retired SM?
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LTC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see)
I don't interface with the TAG but my assumption is his Signature Block would be: MG, MI
Not MG, US Army Retired
I don't interface with the TAG but my assumption is his Signature Block would be: MG, MI
Not MG, US Army Retired
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It was the State of Alabama where a Spec4 was made TAG, I’m pretty sure. Governor “Big” Jim Folsom, Sr. did it back in the forties or fifties. The Spec4 was an attorney, but cronyism ruled the day.
Since then, though, I think the nominee must be an O-6 and promotable.
Many times “retired” generals are brought back to be TAG. I don’t know exactly what the criteria are, but it’s not uncommon.
SSG (Join to see) CPT Gabe Snell SFC Ralph E Kelley SPC (Join to see) LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SSG Warren Swan
Since then, though, I think the nominee must be an O-6 and promotable.
Many times “retired” generals are brought back to be TAG. I don’t know exactly what the criteria are, but it’s not uncommon.
SSG (Join to see) CPT Gabe Snell SFC Ralph E Kelley SPC (Join to see) LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SSG Warren Swan
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LTC Stephen C.
Well, SSG (Join to see), we’ve had all this discussion (a lot of it mine), and still no one has really answered your initial question! I’m afraid I still can’t answer it! I know what my title should be as a retired officer:
Name
Rank
USA Retired
However, I do not know how the various states adjutants general signature block should appear. It may vary by state and by status. I just don’t know. I do know that (within reason) each are in their position legally.
I do know that all the GOs in the Alabama National Guard (Army and Air) are legitimate general officers. In other words, they met all military and civilian requirements and went before a federal GO promotion board. How they are brought back as TAG if retired, I simply can’t address.
Name
Rank
USA Retired
However, I do not know how the various states adjutants general signature block should appear. It may vary by state and by status. I just don’t know. I do know that (within reason) each are in their position legally.
I do know that all the GOs in the Alabama National Guard (Army and Air) are legitimate general officers. In other words, they met all military and civilian requirements and went before a federal GO promotion board. How they are brought back as TAG if retired, I simply can’t address.
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SSG (Join to see)
Roger, LTC. The site I was referring to is NGB, so I'm guessing they post what each state presents them, without fact checking. It's also not represented on the state site. https://calguard.ca.gov/army/
State of California
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Well if he is retired he shouldn't be in command, if he was recalled he needs to drop the 'Ret' from his title.
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SPC (Join to see)
LTC Stephen C. -
Not surprised at the vagueness of some of them.
District of Columbia:
"It is hereby provided that the adjutant general shall have had previous military experience."
I wasn't expecting to see any accept state guard however. Even more interesting is of all states that would I figured it'd be Texas, not Hawaii.
Not surprised at the vagueness of some of them.
District of Columbia:
"It is hereby provided that the adjutant general shall have had previous military experience."
I wasn't expecting to see any accept state guard however. Even more interesting is of all states that would I figured it'd be Texas, not Hawaii.
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LTC Stephen C.
SPC (Join to see), in earlier times, some of the states were likely compelled to be vague and ambiguous regarding AG eligibility criteria due to the size of the state and thus their respective national guards. Some of these states simply didn’t have a sufficient pool of qualified officers within their ranks. Hawaii, being an isolated and remote island(s), is a perfect example of such.
Nowadays, each state has upped their game (likely because of NGB oversight) and each has more officers that are qualified to serve as TAG.
However, since TAG is appointed by the governor (in most states), politics and cronyism will almost always prevail. Fortunately, in many instances, TAG proves to be an effective leader, manager and administrator, but that is simply coincidental to the political appointment process.
SSG (Join to see) CPT Gabe Snell Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen LTC (Join to see) SFC Ralph E Kelley SSG Warren Swan
Nowadays, each state has upped their game (likely because of NGB oversight) and each has more officers that are qualified to serve as TAG.
However, since TAG is appointed by the governor (in most states), politics and cronyism will almost always prevail. Fortunately, in many instances, TAG proves to be an effective leader, manager and administrator, but that is simply coincidental to the political appointment process.
SSG (Join to see) CPT Gabe Snell Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen LTC (Join to see) SFC Ralph E Kelley SSG Warren Swan
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
LTC Stephen C. - I agree. Even with the politics involved (never Guard but worked with them both active and civilian contractor) I have found they are qualified in leadership and management. A different style maybe than active army but still qualified.
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SPC (Join to see)
LTC Stephen C. -
That does make sense Sir, and seeing that State Governments have much larger fish to fry no one is concerned about updating it. Haha
Occasionally I skim the Guard Association's magazine, Whatever the Guard calls it's own magazine these days (seems to change a lot), as well as various online articles, and from I have read most states appoint a serving officer that meets their requirements.
That does make sense Sir, and seeing that State Governments have much larger fish to fry no one is concerned about updating it. Haha
Occasionally I skim the Guard Association's magazine, Whatever the Guard calls it's own magazine these days (seems to change a lot), as well as various online articles, and from I have read most states appoint a serving officer that meets their requirements.
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Regarding this wouldn’t there be a formal Army regulation that is buffered with a supporting State regulation that makes the overall picture of how this is done? I know each state might have their own personal methods in their reg, but I find it odd Big Army has nothing in writing for this. It does for everything else, and some of them are used in Nat Guard regs.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Hard to say, my opinion is leadership is actually an art made up of intangibles. You can't always tell if a person is a leader but it is easy to tell when they are not. That is the basic of my disagreement with the current Army's promotion to SGT/E5 based on 'time in service'.
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SSG (Join to see)
Great point SSG. I was trying to ask basically the same thing. AR600-20 only mentions The President, but doesn't mention Governors.. I "ass-u-me", there's state law involved, but don't know what it is yet.. Or why the reference isn't made in the AR.
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SPC (Join to see)
Would Big Army even have a legal standing to write a regulation on this seeing that it is a political appointment that really doesn't require one to be in active service? If a TAG is retired, State Guard, or some of sort of other applicable background they wouldn't have any control of them to my understanding.
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