Robert Bales claims his massacre of 16 civilians in Afghanistan is uniquely different from those mass shootings in the US. Agree?

CSM (Join to see), I am with SPC (Join to see) on this one. I am not going on a witch hunt, but I would question very harshly the Platoon and Company leadership. To have a Squad Leader this close to the edge, using steroids, and drinking and this comes as a surprise strains credulity. Not to mention that he can just walk off the COP unchallenged. These men live in close quarters and interact constantly. Bales' issues weren't exactly new either.

Walking off the COP has me puzzled. If he can walk off then somebody can just walk on unchallenged. People can hide their drinking. I heard stories, long after the fact, of guys getting whisky mailed to them in listerene bottles. We even had somebody once get booze from a coalition force. An engaged chain-of-command can catch many things before they become problems. A Corporal checking the barracks, doing proper POV/motorcycle inspections and being involved with his or her Soldiers goes a long way towards nipping things in the bud. Like anything hindsight is always 20/20.

CSM (Join to see) - My belief CSM is that he didn't walk off unnoticed. That one I just don't believe. Someone noticed him. Someone was aware of his absense. Someone just looked the other way though.

I respect your opinion, and that is certainly possible, but I would be surprised if that that is the case. He may have simply known about some dead space that could not been seen from a position or he waited until a guard went to the latrine or was not paying attention.

SSG Juan Corpus - Get back to me when you can form a complete sentence. If you can take the time to come here and run your suck, at least make it coherent. As far as the creed. nope I've made plenty of them. Note the example I used. The FIRST LINE. For all of my mistakes, I've never murdered, maimed, or did any damage to anyone that did not directly deserve it. So no "Super NCO" here bruh. Just a professional one. But like I said before, we can continue this the moment you are able to form basic sentences with some kind of punctuation. We're done with this discussion.

PTSD is a strange illness. It has different effects on different people. If it causes you to commit a crime, you will have your day in court and be judged. Whatever the outcome is you will have to face it. It may be a contributing factor in the crime you committed, but it can't be held as an excuse, unless your attorney can get you an insanity plea. But, as veteran brothers and sisters, it is up to us to be our brother's keeper. If you see your brother headed down this path, talk to him. Let him blow off some steam. We can do a whole lot about this ourselves.

So, let me weigh in with my $.02 worth. PTSD MAY have played a roll in this case. Many of us have PTSD to some degree or another. Everybody has an emotional limit that once reached requires help. Help can be in the form of professional counseling from Behavior Health professionals, or something as benign as having a friend who you can confide in. I believe what we should be concentrating the discussion on is how we can better see signs of stress and maladjustment in each other.

CSM (Join to see) - You're correct CSM. And there are other threads where folks have been actively discussing in positive ways to help one another. I don't believe for a second anyone on this site wants nothing but the best for one another no matter if we agree or disagree on things here. But in this particular case, PTSD "could" be a contributing factor, but no matter what he made a decision to harm, and that decision harmed the innocent people. We all have seen or heard of someone we know, love, or were in charge of loosing their lives either in the heat of battle there, or in the heat of battle in their own minds here in the states. But along with the condition, comes a decision not to harm people hopefully. We all have breaking points without a doubt; but know yourself and seek self improvement is a leadership trait, and my 1SG when I deployed didn't let that get past us no matter what was going on.

1SG, you do indeed have a tough job. I personally thank you for your service. You not only serve the army and the government of the United States, you serve every veteran who has gone before you to help uphold our honor, even though most of those you deal with may not respect us.

Well, I got the opportunity to visit that village on a frequented basis. Granted it was usually around midnight to 0300 on our way to Talucan or Mushan, but the eeriness and air was something you'll never forget. The moments when they set-up rock stacks in the middle of the road knowing you are going to roll them. Having live ordinance at CP 17 - 19. My point is, it doesn't matter what you "think" you would have hoped to do in that village. They would have held out their hands and accepted anything that you wanted to give them and then turn around and target my convoy rolling through there that same night.

Do you know what it's like to listen to the chatter on your position and how they will be potentially ambushing you? Yet, you're not at your home base so you have to move out anyways. Ever wonder who is giving them your position? People seem to misunderstand that it's a war. Things happen, whether they are good or bad. I just find it funny how we try to determine the mindset of someone and whether he was justified in his actions.

Think about this for a minute. How about you flip the situation around, A member of the Taliban, in broad day, hands a magnetic IED to a child to place under your vehicle as your forced to travel at a snail's pace through their village because all the women and children are unknowingly blocking your path. You can't run them over because they're non combatants, but what can you do? Send out our Terp with TC exposing them or try to move them through the loudspeaker. Of course this doesn't work where you eventually have to get out and communicate with someone to get the fuck out of the way. Meanwhile, as you begin to get out of your Maxpro and the gate is down for your Terp everything suddenly goes black. The only thing you can remember is Boom, Boom, Boom.

The aftermath is you're down, your terp is down, and 20 civilians (women and children) are down. All the while the Taliban member continues to videotape his glorious actions. Knowing that a week from now he will be praised by his leadership for carrying out a successful attack on a US Convoy. The end result, 24 casualties. 23 of which are women and children and 1 US Coalition Terp is KIA.

The point of this is they will kill 200 of their own in order to kill 1 of you. They are greeted with praise and tales of fortune yet we will castrate any of our own who even shit the wrong way. You want to hold someone accountable? Start with his command leadership and work your way up all the way to the White House. The best part is, most of you will look at this as me siding with the SSG. What he did was morally fucked up, but did so in reactions to a morally fucked up place.

Shit, look at PVT Bergdahl. Traitor, that got his own killed and was praised for his glorious release from capture. Now he is being charged because someone has a little bit of sense however it doesn't change the simple truth that my brothers and sisters are expendable. Kill 300 of us and 1 child and guess who will get the most attention? Maybe everyone should stop saying he is accountable for his actions. We are accountable for his actions, but I guess we will always need someone to blame.

SGT (Join to see), I understand all too well that the folks in that village will never take anything I say and suddenly change their ways.
Do you know what is like to look into the eyes of a grieving father, who just lost his son from a stray bullet, his home and all that he owns strewn about after a search, looking for a weapons cache and taking his rifle - his only means to defend himself in a savage land - and telling him his boy's life is worth $2000? I have, and no matter how you feel about Afghans, if you have a soul it is terrible.

The Afghan people, particularly the ones in the Pashto tribal areas, will never be our friends. But the human touch of a man with children of his own making the trip to their village and facing that grief and rage and hopelessness and offering a man's understanding... it does have value and worth. He may be my enemy yesterday, hate me today, and be my enemy again tomorrow, but for a small moment in time we have something in common.
I pray someday that enough Afghans will realize just how valueless their lives are to the Taliban, and eject them from their homes and towns and back into the hills and caves where they belong. It may never happen, but one person at a time, I know that human contact has an effect. It is worth it, even if I leave a small part of my humanity on the floor every time I have to do it.

Give him a medal. Less Muslims = less terror.

SPC Edward R, I understand what you are saying, but lining up people and shooting them, even if they were the responsible ones - as if he knew - is a war crime all the same. He is not the judge, jury, and executioner. He was a Soldier with a duty to uphold our nations ideals through his conduct. When he failed that test and went on his rampage, he ceased to be a Staff Sergeant in the Army and became little more than the demented killers he was sent to fight.

War is terrible to those who fight it, and often more so to those who survive it. The loss of a brother to an enemy who hides among innocents and rarely gets decisively engaged. I've been there. It sucks.
Doing the right thing, even when it is hard, is what separates us from them.

1SG (Join to see) - I respect that 1SG and Understand it .

1SG (Join to see) - Thank you for your Service and all you've Sacrificed for Our Country .

Except for when women and children try to kill you over there.

1stSgt (Join to see) - His level of training is an excellent point which I presume holds him to a much higher implied standard, which brings up another issue: does this higher standard make his actions even more heinous, and by comparison domestic mass killers less so?

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS , Murder is heinous, no need to apply levels to it in my opinion. He will be locked up for the rest of his life. But, I think it is worse do to his training and premeditation.

1stSgt (Join to see) - He was a successful stockbroker before enlisting in response to 9/11, and his letter requesting clemency is very articulate. Perhaps there, but for the love of God (for us or us for Him) go I...and his jailhouse conversion to Christianity reflects that...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/08/u-s-army-mass-murderer-the-hate-grows-not-only-for-insurgents-but-towards-everyone-who-isnt-american/

I say he does maximum 10 years and then we let him go. He served our country and fought the good fight. He had a moment of weakness. That doesn't mean we destroy one of our wounded warriors. If we have compassion for everyone else in the world, why not for him? He doesn't deserve life that is for sure. He snapped. If you want life, then okay, you fuckers just go kill him then. You can have that on your plate then. Everybody is sick of this shit. At least we are.

Hmmm..... I got diagnosed with PTSD... He is no different than any other murder. .... to become racist is to disassociate one self. America has a race issue. He would be compared to a cop. Not the theater shooter dude. Afghan ain't black. So no badge to hide from. Plus, military police themselves. Cops, well, you know.

I am sure he is on suicide watch in a special cell. If he shows them that he is okay. Which of course he can because he has the discipline to do it, they will eventually relax and then, maybe he will. I did six months of military prison duty at the Mannheim Stockade in the 80's and I absolutely hated it.

Anybody out here truly understand PTSD? Probably Not

Sgt. Hern--actually I do understand PTSD quite well--I wrote two novels about it.

It's almost as if you can see the toll 4 deployments have taken on him by the look in his eyes in what I assume to be a mug photo.

MAJ Brent Nielsen, it has been a long war. Many of us have more - and handful many more - than four tours. The effects of that will be felt long after all of this is over.

You can blame that on the Commander and chief. Not enough resources to get the job done. That's not the DOD's fault, they have to work with what they have. No all of this blame can be put in the lap of the commander and chief.

I know plenty of regular Joes with 5, 6, 7 deployments - it was happening often when all the divisional units were going every other year back to back for years.

You and others have stated the obvious, but I was seeking comments about Bales' attempt to make his massacre uniquely distinct and therefore different from domestic mass shootings, referring to 'authority' in his petition for clemency.

Hi Conrad, How would Bales' massacre be any different than say the My lai massacre in Vietnam? His case is not unique than a domestic or any other. I know the Code of Conduct looks good on paper, compared to the thick of being in it. We still have to use moral judgement in these situations. Murder is murder, whether in country (civil), out of country. The fact remains, people died needlessly. Bales remains a mass murderer. He still had a sense of what is right and wrong.

PO1 Howard Doll - Okay Howard you are right. But on the other hand how many of us have actually walked in his boots? I did a year in Saudi and Qatar during Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm after a decade of the Cold War in Germany. We had Scud Rockets lobbed at us and the closest one hit a garbage dump about two k's away from us. But every night we were scared because they could have lobbed Chem or Bio Shit on us. Oh by the way brother, Saddam had a long history of using Weapons of Mass Destruction no matter what the main stream media tells you. He had them and we found them and a lot of them are in Syria now. Go Figure. My point is. We all deal with stress. This man was obviously past his limit. It is our fault that we did not catch him and stop him. Leadership Failure. Bottom Line. Steroids, really, nobody noticed this?

He was in a country where KAT, Marijuana, Poppy is a prime income earner, and people are surprised that he was using steroids? The ignorance of some of you people is beyond me. Wake the fuck up! Take it from someone who has walked in his shoes with multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghan in some of the most combat active areas. Steroids is the least of our problems. No one ever hears about the upper leadership taking long visits to the Afghan hotels, "Kandahar anyone?" or the drunken deliverance of convoy operations that end up killing 16. No one hears about that shit because we get to choose what you know and don't know. CPO, you ask about authority. Yeah it is plausible by any means. Those that think otherwise are either 1 of 2 people. Those who analyze a situation that they themselves have never had a personal experience with or those that analyze the situation based off of pretending they have had a personal experience with, and believe their point is some how validated by it.

But David, did you walk in his shoes? Did you lose squad members, did you have friends have their legs blown off next to you? I did not and Thank God. But this guy did over multiple tours. That counts with me.

I have several combat deployments to remote areas. I have lost friends and seen the darker side of war.

yea, but they are people who want to kill you. So are you going to let them, to prove you are open minded?

I used to try to be impartial but after all of the betrayels in Iraq by Arab muslims, I just keep my mouth shut so as not to make a scene; deep down I hate them all and I can't shake it.

That's a tough admission, SPC (Join to see). One which I understand very well. Finding forgiveness someday will go a long way towards healing you, whether through faith or understanding.
It is not a Pollyanna thing or something ridiculously high-minded. Just one man's path to finding peace after so many years of war and so many memories if horrors.

SPC (Join to see) - It's tough to know who to trust. It's too easy to just not trust them all. I understand exactly what you are saying. I have walked out of places with a disgusted feeling because they are their. I can't say if It will ever change for me.