Posted on Dec 3, 2014
No indictment for NY Cop choke hold death. Right call? More riots?
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Will we see the National Guard deployed in NY City now?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Posted in these groups: 
Police
Grandchildren
Police Grandchildren
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 60
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the media is spinning this so that the officer has done something wrong.
We don't have the evidence
We are not lawyers
We are military members
we are not police officers
we do not understand the policies and procedures the police have to act according to.
We understand our "ROE" in our jobs
We understand what the media is telling us.
Lets let the judicial system in this country work. we are all sworn to uphold the constitution of the united states. We are a nation of laws.
We don't have the evidence
We are not lawyers
We are military members
we are not police officers
we do not understand the policies and procedures the police have to act according to.
We understand our "ROE" in our jobs
We understand what the media is telling us.
Lets let the judicial system in this country work. we are all sworn to uphold the constitution of the united states. We are a nation of laws.
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And to think they want to put cameras on all cops, because a camera would have been proof of something like this happening...oh wait.
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the first thing that striked me when i first saw this is why would you put someone in a choke hold when he is being put in hand cuffs are you that much of a stubborn ass to be that much of a dick to him he's being handcuff that should be it any excessive force should be reviewed properly and discipline action should take place.
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It's a very sticky issue, but the man knew he was violating the law, he resisted the cops when they went to handcuff him and had he not done those things, he wouldn't have been forced down on the ground and roughed up.
I honestly think they thought he was whining about not being able to breathe, and I don't think they realized that he actually meant it that seriously. They deal with so many scumbags that whine when they're being handcuffed and being arrested, and he was just one more uncooperative scumbag they had to arrest for knowingly violating the law. I would be willing to bet that no cop there meant to kill him. Surely nobody there expected him to pass out and need an ambulance ride to the hospital. He had medical conditions which exacerbated the situation. How could they know that?
What bothers me is that blacks are turning this into a race issue and it's not. They didn't choke him because he was black; they choked him down to the ground because he was being uncooperative. The guy had a history of run-ins with the law.
I think the police over-reacted but I wouldn't go so far as to charge them with murder. When he complained about not being able to breathe, they should have backed off. That is their mistake and I could see the family winning a civil suit against the PD for that, but I think the biggest lesson we should take from this and Ferguson is that when the police ask you to do something, it's best to cooperate!!!
I honestly think they thought he was whining about not being able to breathe, and I don't think they realized that he actually meant it that seriously. They deal with so many scumbags that whine when they're being handcuffed and being arrested, and he was just one more uncooperative scumbag they had to arrest for knowingly violating the law. I would be willing to bet that no cop there meant to kill him. Surely nobody there expected him to pass out and need an ambulance ride to the hospital. He had medical conditions which exacerbated the situation. How could they know that?
What bothers me is that blacks are turning this into a race issue and it's not. They didn't choke him because he was black; they choked him down to the ground because he was being uncooperative. The guy had a history of run-ins with the law.
I think the police over-reacted but I wouldn't go so far as to charge them with murder. When he complained about not being able to breathe, they should have backed off. That is their mistake and I could see the family winning a civil suit against the PD for that, but I think the biggest lesson we should take from this and Ferguson is that when the police ask you to do something, it's best to cooperate!!!
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LTC (Join to see)
It isn't about the intent to kill, if it had been that would have been pre-meditated murder, it is the fact that there are a small minority of law enforcement officers that think they are above the law and for the most part the Justice system keeps them above the law and that is wrong.
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Capt Jeff S.
LTC (Join to see), Having to deal with the dregs of society on a day to day basis and put their life on the life for the pay most police officers get does tend to give police officers a negative opinion of those who live a lawbreaking lifestyle.
I totally agree that some officers tend to get full of themselves and believe they are above the law. Thankfully, they represent a minority of those serving, but unfortunately, there are still too many falling into their category. : (
Was watching a parade in Pensacola and there was a motorcycle cop riding up and down through the crowd on his Harley police bike that thought he was a Billy Badass and too cool for school. That got my attention (and not in a good way). I just kept my eye on him because he was driving too fast through the crowd and I could sense that something was going to happen. Sure enough, a lady pulled out in front of him and he T-boned her car. (She couldn't see him through the crowd, and he came out of nowhere.) I saw the whole thing unfold. He flew across her hood and landed on the street on the other side of her car and was pretty shook up. He was probably doing 30mph when he hit her.
Some other police officers came to investigate [from another outfit (ex: State Cop vs. County Cop)] and I offered up my eyewitness account as well as explained to them what happened. I made it very clear that the cop was driving too fast through the crowd and was totally at fault. They didn't write anything down and told me they had it. It was pretty apparent they were pulling together to cover for the motorcycle cop who clearly was in the wrong and I thought it was pretty telling that they didn't write down my eyewitness account or take my name and phone number. Makes me wonder if they were going to try to stick the lady with a ticket for pulling out in front of him.
I totally agree that some officers tend to get full of themselves and believe they are above the law. Thankfully, they represent a minority of those serving, but unfortunately, there are still too many falling into their category. : (
Was watching a parade in Pensacola and there was a motorcycle cop riding up and down through the crowd on his Harley police bike that thought he was a Billy Badass and too cool for school. That got my attention (and not in a good way). I just kept my eye on him because he was driving too fast through the crowd and I could sense that something was going to happen. Sure enough, a lady pulled out in front of him and he T-boned her car. (She couldn't see him through the crowd, and he came out of nowhere.) I saw the whole thing unfold. He flew across her hood and landed on the street on the other side of her car and was pretty shook up. He was probably doing 30mph when he hit her.
Some other police officers came to investigate [from another outfit (ex: State Cop vs. County Cop)] and I offered up my eyewitness account as well as explained to them what happened. I made it very clear that the cop was driving too fast through the crowd and was totally at fault. They didn't write anything down and told me they had it. It was pretty apparent they were pulling together to cover for the motorcycle cop who clearly was in the wrong and I thought it was pretty telling that they didn't write down my eyewitness account or take my name and phone number. Makes me wonder if they were going to try to stick the lady with a ticket for pulling out in front of him.
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PO1 Steven Kuhn
We look to police officers for protection. They put their lives on the line every day to protect and serve. There are some instances of police brutality. I know of one personally from a friend and family member. In every case that I have seen so far, the police are giving orders which they are in a position to give. In every case so far, the African American victim refused to yield to police authority. I do not believe the choke hold was necessary, and will not try and defend either side as the choke hold was supposedly no longer a valid method of restraint and the man was very large and imposing and was not complying with the police officer's requests. When in doubt, do what the police ask you to do and then things can be resolved. Since they face death every day, they have procedures designed to give them better odds of returning home to their families. In any case you review, look to see if the police officers were trying to do their job and the victims were deliberately defying police authority. If there is a case where this is not true, please educate me.
Respectfully,
Steve
Respectfully,
Steve
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Should the officer be charged with murder? Not in my opinion. however, there should be some sort of charges brought. The part that really bothers me is the fact that they all stood there and did nothing after the fact. There may have been a chance that the man could have lived but no one attempted anything. Even the paramedics that arrived on the scene didnt attempt to revive him. That is what bothers me. In combat, our medics tend to the enemy wounded and always attempt to save them if they can. So why dont we do the same for fellow Americans?
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Although the original chokehold was against policy, it is pretty clear that he didn't die from it alone. The fact that he was able to say that he couldn't breath is a case and point he was getting air in his lungs. However, it looks like having a number of people on top of him could have contributed to his death.
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bad call on this one. good call on the other two. i think putting the grand jury indictments so close to each other was a mistake. one decision and the riots may have fueled the grand jury to not indict this one as well. this one was clearly an abuse of power. there was no need for the actions of these officers. to include the guy who put the full weight of his knee on the guys head while four other cops were already holding him down. if Tom Selleck were actually the police commissioner of NYPD, this wouldnt go without punishment. but this is not Blue Bloods.
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I just watched this video for the first time and here are my thoughs:
1. What I saw in the video was not an officer "choking" an individual. I saw an officer attempting to assist an individual much larger than him to a compliant position on the ground.
2. Once the individual was on the ground it did not appear that anyone had any hands, arms, necks, or anything else around the individual's neck. Had there been a "choke hold" applied, the individual would not have been able to so clearly say "I can't breathe".
3. There is this thing called positional asphyxia. Positional Asphyxia is typically the result of an intense struggle and often involves a person who is handcuffed and lying on their stomach after the struggle. I don't know if civilian LEOs are taught about it. I would imagine they are. When I reclassed to MP, we were taught about it.
4. It was stated that the individual suffered from asthma.
My OPINION is that this individual was not choked. If he had been in a choke hold, he wouldn't have been able to so clearly state that he couldn't breathe. I feel that the individual either fell victim to asthma or positional asphyxia. I don't think that any of the LEOs intentionally killed him nor do I feel that they "choked" him.
1. What I saw in the video was not an officer "choking" an individual. I saw an officer attempting to assist an individual much larger than him to a compliant position on the ground.
2. Once the individual was on the ground it did not appear that anyone had any hands, arms, necks, or anything else around the individual's neck. Had there been a "choke hold" applied, the individual would not have been able to so clearly say "I can't breathe".
3. There is this thing called positional asphyxia. Positional Asphyxia is typically the result of an intense struggle and often involves a person who is handcuffed and lying on their stomach after the struggle. I don't know if civilian LEOs are taught about it. I would imagine they are. When I reclassed to MP, we were taught about it.
4. It was stated that the individual suffered from asthma.
My OPINION is that this individual was not choked. If he had been in a choke hold, he wouldn't have been able to so clearly state that he couldn't breathe. I feel that the individual either fell victim to asthma or positional asphyxia. I don't think that any of the LEOs intentionally killed him nor do I feel that they "choked" him.
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Capt Jeff S.
Screen cap'd this pic from the video of the incident showing a definite choke hold being used... and it appears in the photo to be excessive use of force, though the hold wasn't used excessively long.
I concur with SSG (Join to see)'s opinion.
While I'm not or ever was a cop, I come from a wrestling background (high school) and Judo (Marines). Chokes are forbidden in wrestling but legal in Judo. FWIW.
I concur with SSG (Join to see)'s opinion.
While I'm not or ever was a cop, I come from a wrestling background (high school) and Judo (Marines). Chokes are forbidden in wrestling but legal in Judo. FWIW.
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This is not a good example of 'good police work'. It is a shame to find out that only supervisors have tasers. This might of been a good time to use a taser instead of 'testing your mandhood'. We have all seen the videos of bad guys running (or driving) away from LEO only to be gang tackled later on. You see 7 dudes pile on top of a suspect who has 'given up', kneeling on every part of the body they can find. Sadly, it was only a matter of time until, to much force was used....
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SGM (Join to see)
SPC (P) Jay Heenan, try this on. You are the policeman and someone you were trying to arrest rabbits. You an 6 of your buddies corral him after a 10 minute chase to get your adrenalin pumping good. And remember, you still don't know if the idiot has a gun to pull out and shoot you even if it does appear he's given up on running.
So, he stopped running and might have given up. What to you do, walk up, pat him on the back and thank him for the exercise? He's already proven that HIS OWN LIFE is worth less to him than a ride to the police station. Just how far do you endanger your life in dealing with him?
Seven cops kneeling on a bad guy is confirmation that he's not going to pull a gun and shoot you, as well as confirmation that he's not going to rabbit again when he gets his wind back.
Yes, I would rather see police use more non-lethal methods. But I'd also like to see people give up on the idea that they can confront the police because of racial equality or some other silly reason for risking your life and blaming someone else for it.
So, he stopped running and might have given up. What to you do, walk up, pat him on the back and thank him for the exercise? He's already proven that HIS OWN LIFE is worth less to him than a ride to the police station. Just how far do you endanger your life in dealing with him?
Seven cops kneeling on a bad guy is confirmation that he's not going to pull a gun and shoot you, as well as confirmation that he's not going to rabbit again when he gets his wind back.
Yes, I would rather see police use more non-lethal methods. But I'd also like to see people give up on the idea that they can confront the police because of racial equality or some other silly reason for risking your life and blaming someone else for it.
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