Posted on Dec 3, 2014
No indictment for NY Cop choke hold death. Right call? More riots?
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Will we see the National Guard deployed in NY City now?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Posted in these groups: 
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Police Grandchildren
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 60
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My initial response is that we don't know what evidence the grand jury was privy to. But that's ridiculous. Surely they were given access to the video. Wrong call.
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
Merely playing devils advocate here...what didn't we see before the video? Maybe we need to have faith in the only system we have in place to determine charges or no charges. I wasn't there, I saw a short video and didn't have access to anything else. It does look as if the officer used excessive force, but none of us here were in the grand jury. Also a excellent example why body cameras won't really change anything...
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SGT (Join to see)
Well, there was a report I read recently, that when the LEOs wore body cameras, arrest rates dropped. I'll try and find it.
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Without having all the information these are subjective responses. Objectivity cannot be attained by us, therefore we can only go by what we see and perceive through the media.
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Wrong Call. This will go to civil court and the City, County and State are going to settle out of court as always but how much is a Human Life worth?
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I heard a person yesterday that kept saying our system is broken we need a new one! I do believe there are many inequalities our country needs to work past but this is a critical moment in our history that could turn out for the worse. We have people demanding the system be changed but to what? Our government may not function properly at times but I don't see a better system that offers the freedoms and checks and balances that ours does. We need to keep an eye on how the change continues to happen over the course of years to come.
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SPC (Join to see)
Yeah but how do we do that? Have a government overseer in the Jury deliberations? Have one person making the decision to charge someone for a crime? I don't think there's a better way in my opinion. I truly am curious to hear a better option cause I only here people saying we need change but no solution.
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SGT (Join to see)
External audits of police agencies and personnel. Yearly inter-departmental behavioral and mental health checks. Kicking officers with multiple complaints to the curb. More emphasis on community-relations.
Some suggestions.
Some suggestions.
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I think it's the right call because it was a grand jury who made the decision based on the facts and testimony they heard. Regardless of what they choose, it was the right call. Not bringing the incident before a grand jury would have been the wrong call, but that's not what happened. We, as a society, should not complain when the outcome of "due process" is not what we wanted or what we thought it should be.
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SSG Brian Rogers
"Due Process"? So if the grand jury says no indictment it's done. Correct me if I'm wrong but is not an Article 32 investigation the military equivalent to a grand jury indictment? But if the Article 32 investigator which is appointed by the government with no say so from the defense counsel says no charges should be filed the government can still proceed with those charges. HMPH "Due process" my fourth point of contact.
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LTC (Join to see)
CPT Rose....how is this not "due process" If we look at the definition, it is the legal and proper way of things in a legal case.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/due%20process
Although the outcome may not be what everyone wanted, the process was done the way it was supposed to. I am not saying I agree or disagree with the decision, as I don’t know the all the facts that were presented to the grand jury.
SSG Rogers….to your question, I don’t know what the government can do after a grand jury decision. You are correct with respect to our Article 32, where the IO makes a recommendation to the Approving Authority, but the AA can still decide to go forward despite the IO’s recommendations.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/due%20process
Although the outcome may not be what everyone wanted, the process was done the way it was supposed to. I am not saying I agree or disagree with the decision, as I don’t know the all the facts that were presented to the grand jury.
SSG Rogers….to your question, I don’t know what the government can do after a grand jury decision. You are correct with respect to our Article 32, where the IO makes a recommendation to the Approving Authority, but the AA can still decide to go forward despite the IO’s recommendations.
due process | law : the official and proper way of doing things in a legal case : the rule that a...
noun | See the full definition...
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I just don't know. I've been following the case and I assumed at the least the officer would've gotten indicted. Things seem pretty clear and evident to me but I just don't know. It is so conflicting because I feel for the family and am saddened by the loss but emotions shouldn't intervene with what is actually present. How can I assume something that I know little or nothing of? I wasn't there. No evidence was presented to me. The only thing I can go by is the illegal chokehold. The NYPD commissioner ordered for the retraining of officers in regards to this specific technique. That said something to me. But there's no indictment. Just hope my city stays calm and doesn't resort to full blown chaos to try to make a point.
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He broke policy, and his actions directly resulted in the death of a suspect for a minor crime which did not warrant that type of reaction from the police.
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
Let's look at the autopsy, the Medical Examiner cited the cause of death as being caused by compression of the neck hmm if it wasn't a "choke hold" then how did he receive pressure to his neck? The point is that the officer violated the policy and the actions of his negligence resulted in the death of a suspect. The suspect's own medical conditions contributed to his death, but the improper tactic that was used was the problem here.
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
If you're going to bring up the history of Eric Garner, you also have to look at the history of Daniel Pantaleo and the fact that he was sued for conducting a strip search on to black males on the streets of NY in broad daylight. The case was settled for $30,000. So there is a bit of a history of misconduct in his past as well.
City paid out $30K to settle 2012 lawsuit against chokehold cop Daniel Pantaleo
Pantaleo and another officer were accused of strip-searching two men in broad daylight, on a public street.
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If the choke hold was not an authorized tactic and from the video he was not being combative this could of been solved differently. Although he was 300 lbs and this is easy for me to say sitting back and watching the video. I just know that it is tough being a Police Officer these days because no matter what you do right or wrong it is gone over with a fine tooth comb and it seems an officer is guilty till proven innocent. Witch is wrong.
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I didn't see the evidence, but people thought that there wasn't enough of it to bring to trial.
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SSG Robert Burns Having not seen the evidence, I cannot say as to the reason or reasons the Grand Jury chose not to indict. I will say that, sadly, when people fight with anyone including the police, bad things may, can, and will sometimes happen.
I must believe the evidence does not exist which would lead the persons or this Grand Jury to believe the officer involved violated the law, depicted intent, or acted in bad faith.
I know others disagree and I respect that right, but at some point we have to have faith that the justice system in our country works as it should and I hope it would if I were the deceased or the law enforcement officer in this and other situations.
I must believe the evidence does not exist which would lead the persons or this Grand Jury to believe the officer involved violated the law, depicted intent, or acted in bad faith.
I know others disagree and I respect that right, but at some point we have to have faith that the justice system in our country works as it should and I hope it would if I were the deceased or the law enforcement officer in this and other situations.
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SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
CPT Justin Rose Sir, I have no personal or professional interactions with the Grand Jury in Staten Island so, I cannot intelligently comment on any bias.
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CPT (Join to see)
There is little reason to have faith in our legal system now. Look at the types of things that go on. The amounts of frivelous lawsuits are ridiculous. In situations like this, stature and money talk. It wont get any better any time soon. Do you think that if deployed, and you got into an argument with an unarmed local and then took him to the ground and killed him that you would get off without punishment?
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SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
CPT (Join to see) Sir you make comments which are reason for pause and introspective reflection. Having investigated all manner of crimes in and out of the Army, I agree there is reason to examine this situation from all points of view.
I see many things in the video and am quite interested in reviewing the evidence. I still have faith in our legal system as I do not know of a better system. I have been exposed to much worse systems where no one has rights.
I am hopeful the evidence is released and some of the angst is reduced for everyone.
I recognize our system of justice needs improvement and I am open to improvement. Likewise, my belief is regardless of position, if you are wrong then you must face the consequences.
Thank you for your comments and for allowing me to see things from a different perspective.
I see many things in the video and am quite interested in reviewing the evidence. I still have faith in our legal system as I do not know of a better system. I have been exposed to much worse systems where no one has rights.
I am hopeful the evidence is released and some of the angst is reduced for everyone.
I recognize our system of justice needs improvement and I am open to improvement. Likewise, my belief is regardless of position, if you are wrong then you must face the consequences.
Thank you for your comments and for allowing me to see things from a different perspective.
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