Posted on Jan 17, 2014
Is a mustache unprofessional even if within regs??
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I've recently been made aware that it's considered unprofessional for an officer to even have a mustache, regardless of whether or not it's within regulations.<br><br>Where did that come from? I have some serious heartburn with it. As long as my mustache conforms to 670-1 and I'm not trying to push the envelope with it, I should be able to have one. I really don't see it as unprofessional or getting in the way of my doing my job to the best of my ability.<br><br>
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 39
Chief: First, be careful not to confuse professionalism and following regulations. Everybody has to do the latter. The way you perform as a service member is the former.
A true military professional officer has performance, conduct, standards, and appearance that sets an example for subordinates. If you want a mustache and look good with it...do it! If it looks like crap, do yourself a favor and shave. There is nothing unprofessional about an officer with mustache; unless it's an untidy, crappy mustache! NOTE: This only applies to garrison. Outside the wire: fear the beard.
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CW3 (Join to see)
I'm a TPU Reserve Soldier, so could take a civilian job now, unfortunately your firm has no openings for my line of work. Oh well. Perhaps in the future.
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MAJ Joseph Parker
Oh? Not so fast! Please connect. Send me your resume. We have several thousand jobs coming on line in the next few months, which is why I have been having my HR people scour this site.
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SSG William Egan
MAJ Joseph Parker - WAY TO GO MAJOR.....GOOD LUCK CHIEF. LOVE TO SEE VETS HELPING VETS. LORD KNOWS OUR GOVERNMENT WON'T BUT MOST VETS ALWAYS HAVE YOUR SIX....OR AT LEAST A LOT OF THEM.
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CW3 (Join to see) Back in my day it was a discriminator for sure. That is why in between official military photographs I shaved mine off and then it let it grow back afterwards
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CPT David Landrum
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - I have wondered the same thing. Since I have never figured it out, I go with miniature medals on a civilian suit. I would love to have a uniform in reserve for veterans day, etc., just have never felt comfortable with the vagueness of 670-1 on retirees.
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CPL John Root
SGT Josheua Cooke - Just a little ol' corporal here but, as I understood it as the units NBC NCO the reason we shaved and had the mustache the way it was is due to the advent of the potential of a NBC attack as the Pro Masks developed facial hair prevented a proper seal and well, that would be the last thing you would want.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
CPT David Landrum - If you read it is pretty vague. Since the most of the violations fall under the UCMJ I doubt that the services would waste dollars on trying a case where a soldier had a beard or longer hair and wore their uniform to a special event. I've learned my lesson from SMSgt Sheila Berg above and will never where my dress mess uniform again without the proper shave and haircut. By the way it still fits too! Not bad after being out for 4 years already.
Retirees are subject to the UCMJ, but only in extreme cases of misconduct according to Article 2 - see below:
Under Article 2 of the UCMJ, the Army maintains court-martial jurisdiction over retired personnel. Army Regulation 27-10, Military Justice, states “Retired members of a regular component of the Armed Forces who are entitled to pay are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ . . . and may be tried by court-martial for violations of the UCMJ that occurred while they were on active duty or while in a retired status.” Department of the Army policy, however, does limit these trials to cases where extraordinary circumstances are present. The Army normally declines to prosecute retired Soldiers unless their crimes have clear ties to the military, or are clearly service discrediting. If necessary to facilitate courts-martial action, retired Soldiers may be ordered to active duty.
The regulation adds that “Retired Reserve Component Soldiers are subject to recall to active duty for the investigation of UCMJ offenses they are alleged to have committed while in a Title 10 duty status, for trial by court-martial, or for proceedings under UCMJ, Article 15.” Forfeitures imposed under the UCMJ, Article 15 may even be applied against a Soldier’s retired pay
Retirees are subject to the UCMJ, but only in extreme cases of misconduct according to Article 2 - see below:
Under Article 2 of the UCMJ, the Army maintains court-martial jurisdiction over retired personnel. Army Regulation 27-10, Military Justice, states “Retired members of a regular component of the Armed Forces who are entitled to pay are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ . . . and may be tried by court-martial for violations of the UCMJ that occurred while they were on active duty or while in a retired status.” Department of the Army policy, however, does limit these trials to cases where extraordinary circumstances are present. The Army normally declines to prosecute retired Soldiers unless their crimes have clear ties to the military, or are clearly service discrediting. If necessary to facilitate courts-martial action, retired Soldiers may be ordered to active duty.
The regulation adds that “Retired Reserve Component Soldiers are subject to recall to active duty for the investigation of UCMJ offenses they are alleged to have committed while in a Title 10 duty status, for trial by court-martial, or for proceedings under UCMJ, Article 15.” Forfeitures imposed under the UCMJ, Article 15 may even be applied against a Soldier’s retired pay
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CW3 (Join to see) I think this is a great topic to bring up; in fact I'd like to try to get it some more attention. I've only ever seen one Officer with a mustache, O10 Admiral Swift. His mustache is iconic and very professional in appearance. I am not sure how a mustache would affect a Junior Officer, however it seems when you are a Senior Officer or a Flag Officer, you get a bit more leeway when it comes to personal appearance, such as growing a mustache. Now, as far as mustaches go for Warrant Officers, I can only speak in regards to Navy Warrant Officers. Like many things in the Navy, our E7s and CWOs are very different. To become a Warrant Officer, the service member must have served at least 14 years as an enlisted man and have been eligible for E7 (in most cases, ARE an E7). Chief's wear mustaches. Plain and simple. I feel you are more apt to find a mustache in the Navy than in many other services. The Navy has always been the rebel branch if you as me. ;)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs Col Joseph Lenertz Col (Join to see) SPC James Purcell, LCPL CAPT Kevin B. LTC Kevin B. SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas TSgt Joe C. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL ADM John Harvey
COL Mikel J. Burroughs Col Joseph Lenertz Col (Join to see) SPC James Purcell, LCPL CAPT Kevin B. LTC Kevin B. SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas TSgt Joe C. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL ADM John Harvey
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SFC Carey Cox
My feelings is that the army is about uniformity not individuality. Whenever I saw a superior with a mustache I immediately knew he was going to be the type that did whatever he wanted to do. I think most who wear those huge catipillar mustaches are doing nothing more than attention seeking. I never wore one and I never will. It's even a scientific fact that a lot of people do not care to even have to deal with people wearing one. So yes it is very unprofessional. Especially when you see SGM and above strutting a huge mustache that is barely even in regs or even worse out of regs.
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ENS (Join to see)
I have to disagree with you SFC Carey Cox. However we all have the right to our opinions, usually based on our experiences. However, I can promise you that Admiral Swift and Captain (O6) Archibald, both whom have a mustache, are some of the best people with the most steadfast integrity. I have to admit though, your response got a chuckle out of me. "It's a scientific fact" - I'd love to see the study indicating a mustache makes someone any less approachable. One of the most intelligent and kind hearted people I know is an older gentleman who works for SPAWAR - he has had a mustache since he was in high school. In fact, my father has a mustache is is beloved and adored by the school he works for. If the army has regulations for the wear of a mustache, that means anyone capable of growing a mustache is allowed to. Don't take uniformity too far. If we wanted true uniformity we would all have the same haircut and same hair color. Until I see the Army, women included, sporting shaved heads, I believe the Army gives you some wiggle room when it comes to "uniformity". ;) Just this Sailor's two cents.
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SSG William Egan
ENS (Join to see) - YEA, WHAT HE SAID.
I CAN'T ADD ANYMORE TO ADD CREDIBLILITY. GREAT JOB AND WITHOUT ATTACKING. LOVE IT!
I CAN'T ADD ANYMORE TO ADD CREDIBLILITY. GREAT JOB AND WITHOUT ATTACKING. LOVE IT!
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