How to mentor Soldiers on a MOS specific regulations when doctrine conflicts "AR, DA Pam, DODI"
Some NCO's may have experienced this. I say some because not all MOS's have several certifications required per rank and several regulations pertaining how/when you should acquire these certs for certain positions or ranks. Example: DA Pam 611-21 10-12M. MOS 12M (ACASP designated MOS Effective 1010) section b. subsection 8 All DoD firefighters must be certified at the next higher level before being eligible for a position at that level, in accordance with DoD 6055.06-M. Effective 1 October 2007, in order to retain MOS 12M, NCO's (SGT, SSG, SFC) must become certified to grade within 2 years of promotion for Active Duty , and within 3 years for Reserve/NG components. NCO's who fail to complete required certification training within the stated time will be involuntarily reclassified. 12 February 2008.
Now AR 420-1 Section XV, Chapter 25-61b: The certification levels in table 25-5 are the minimum mandatory qualification standards for the positions indicated. Individuals shall be DOD certified at these levels before being eligible to fill these grades and/or positions. 12 February 2008/RAR 24 August 2012.
Also
NFPA professional qualifications standards outlined in NFPA Standard 472 and the 1000 series standards (References (d) and (e)). Which is the regulations DOD 6055.06 refer to. I understand these regulations do not pertain to many individuals on this Social Media site as there are less than 350 Active Duty Military Firefighters in the U.S. Army but perhaps some of you other leaders have dealt with similar situations. Does one override the other? Does it need to be updated so they match?
There shouldn't be many conflicts between DODI and ARs. The AR us usually an implementation of a DoDI. In the DoDI and AR you refer to, there should be a statement that directs the implementation of the most restrictive standard whenever a conflict is discovered. That should be no surprise....
DA Pams and STPs are irrelevent. That are not regulatory in nature and are for guidance on implemenation of training and regulations.
If you are concerned about a specific certification, I can probably help. I have had to work several 12M through some rough problems in these certs. Are you concerned about specific certs or is this a general question?
I guess I would expect you would have instructor I and II personnel at Rucker. If you don't have the trainers available at your house, and the deadlines are arriving, I would get the Chief to start advocating for Garrison or other training funds to send FF to Goodfellow, MFRI, a community college in your area, or look for local training events in the volunteer or career houses in your area. I have always found that local stations were willing to train greensuiters.
CPT Walk, it has been a long time since I heard an Army Officer speak about Goodfellow, AFB. ha. Anyways it is good to have someone else familiar with the subject material in this discussion. At my last duty assignment, my duties as a lower enlisted Soldier and as a NCO were not related to firefighting in anyway. I was unable to receive my certs for SGT, I PCS'd came to Ft. Rucker where the standard has always been to have the certs for the pay grade above you. At the time I had the 5 certs we receive in AIT. Started receiving negative counseling immediately because I wasn't to standard, my leadership knew my unit was a deployable unit and that its main focus was on supporting other deploying units and training missions held in the Grafenwohr training area. Long story short I had to bust my hump and earn 8 certifications within year to support my current rank. Most classes are self paced because we can not afford to lose personnel due to short manning. 1 out of 5 air fields that Military Firefighter work at is able to log into the system to conduct CDC. We send our SGT's and SSG's to Goodfellow when we can because that is part of our ALC & SLC but that is few and far between, also due to shortages of personnel and funds due to furlough's.
This May, a peer of mine in Germany and a recent re-classified Soldier was assigned at my unit. Same situation for this SGT but worse. Only had the certs from AIT, has been trying to earn as them but the furloughs severely affected his attempts. CDC website was suspended due to furlough in which they wouldn't enroll personnel into new courses and wouldn't process completed course documents. We all know this lasted longer than it should have. Anyways he came down on the By-Names list for SSG, leadership wants to take it away, they say he doesn't deserve it due to the lack of certs. But why cant the 2 year rule apply, because he obviously didn't have the opportunity in Germany and hasn't had the time or much of an opportunity here.
I do not know to what extent the local command can interfere with promotion to SSG. Your SGT made the points and will eventually get paid, as a SSG. If they wanted to interfer, that should have been done before the points and by-name came out. It is probably too late now.
The best counsel for that person is follow your example immediately. He must show a continual effort to complete the certs (like doing situp). If it comes down to it, and he goes outside the immediate chain of command to address the potential unreasonableness of the expectation, the first thing he will be asked it what has he done to attempt to rectify the situation.
I certainly don't disagree with the intent of the standard. This may be a situation where his SSG must take the Chief behind closed doors and argue that the leadership needs to support the training instead of stomping on morale.
SSG Burns, I see where your confusion is. My apologies. AR 420-1 is clear by saying you need the specific certifications prior to being eligible for the grade or position. DA Pam doesn't say that, it says have the certs for the next higher position and you have 2 years to attain those certs. If you don't have those certs within the two years of you receiving promotion to that position you will be reclassed. My intent is based on Soldiers within the 12M MOS that are that either earn promotable status or receive promotion to the next higher rank without those certificates. Basically it is hit and miss with some leadership within the 12M MOS, some allow the 2 year window in which the Soldier receives the promotion to the grade but doesn't place that NCO in a supervisor position for Fire & Emergency personnel because they are not certified to do so. The NCO earns the certs required then moves into the position. Other leaders in this MOS go by the AR which states you have to have those certs before you hold the Rank and position. This puts NCO's that re-class into this MOS or prior service members coming back to Active Duty in the spotlight where below standard NCOER's, loss of Rank, and Separation are used. Its just that these two regulations can and are often interpreted the wrong way because they do not accurately support each other.
Our IFSAC/Pro-Board/DoD equivalent certifications do not expire, except for EMT/Paramedic. Granted we daily/weekly/bi-monthly/monthly/quarterly/bi-annual/annual requirements that have to be met which cover all training areas but if a Soldier is not proficient in the duties of the position that he/she currently holds the certification can be revoked.
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