Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 326
I personally don't think the Confederate flag is offensive at all. I see it as some honoring their heritage and history. Not bragging about the past but reflecting on love for the south. My father is 76 years old. My mother is Native American (Pure) and my dad is East Indian and Black. He was so big into history that we had Confederate Flag cups, plates, actual flags, table cloths, and much more. My father showed me that everyone has history that they represent. There are others that may use the flag in negative and offensive ways but this goes for anything. For example the biggest debate I ever got in was the use of the "N" word. For African Americans to use it seems ok but for anyone else it is a huge no no. Yet i look on as many use that word now even other races. This is the same as the flag I believe. Some may take it as history and some may not. For me I think you should show who you are and not be ashamed. If someone is offended and can CLEARLY express WHY they are offended let them do so then educate them...
(This may hit some nerves but it is my opinion)
(This may hit some nerves but it is my opinion)
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LCpl Todd Houston
Cpl Williams, You make a good amount of points. Although I can really see what you contend, I simply do not believe that very much of this entire community dialogue has anything based on facts. I am sorry to single this statement out, but there are a great many education systems in the south, some good, some not so good.. Are there better? Yes , of course. Are there worse, absolutely. Mississippi school systems really do hold the distinct dishonor of being sadly lacking, but this cannot define the south as a whole. There are also some of the poorest systems nationally as well. However, a lot of them do succeed at accomplishing much, much more than some of their northern, richer school systems. Case in point. I have a niece that will be graduating high school next year. This young lady has never, ever seen anything below a b+ since preschool. On her graduation day, she will pick up her diploma and an associates degree. This year she has also been invited to take classes towards her bachelors degree!! I kid you not, she goes to school in the least financially secure school system in the country. To state that a school system stays poor on purpose to "make sure people remain unaware" is ridiculous on its face. It is also quite possible that I have misinterpreted what you were saying, as I have been educated in the south. I would like you to ponder just one thing. Were would we be if the civil war was never fought? We would most likely still be living in a world full of jim crow laws. And that would probably be the best case scenario. Sad.
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LCpl Todd Houston
PO3 Taylor - Your post, I believe, is so simple. It's really fantastic. It literally ends and answers every single point in this ENTIRE discussion. semper fi.
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FN Randy Bohlke
Bowser High School here in South Toledo Ohio used to be known as the Rebels and they sported the rebel flag, being 80 to 90 percent African American no one ever said anything about it. Well 4 or 5 years ago when status's was getting torn down and everyone was making a big stinks about that part of our American history they decided to change their name and do away with the flag so they wouldn't offered anyone. It's so sad when we have to trample all over our own feels just to make everyone else's better.
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CPO (Join to see)
I completely agree. My roots are southern and there is a difference between Southern and Northern culture. There are elements of the South's past I wish had been different (slavery) but that doesn't define what southern culture is now any more than it defines what New York is now. I recognize that racist elements have tried to co-op the flag but if enough of us take it back we can change it's meaning back to representing Southern culture and Southern values.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Southern pride and, more specifically, unity in a region that bore the bulk of the ruin of war, followed by the humiliation of reconstruction, and then decades of economic stagnation.
Some people can't see past their own narrative to see that slavery was not all there was to the south.
Of course, for my generation, that flag doesn't represent the confederacy; it represents two moonshiners, their hot cousin, and their cool car.
Some people can't see past their own narrative to see that slavery was not all there was to the south.
Of course, for my generation, that flag doesn't represent the confederacy; it represents two moonshiners, their hot cousin, and their cool car.
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This is a very sensitive situation that is often dealt from in the military as most of the Army installations are in the south. It is hard to say how someone would perceive such a image. My Regiments linage goes as far back as the 3rd North Carolina, of which fought as a Confederate infantry regiment. There is a lot of pride for the South as you also have Civil War Memorials all over NC, to include Raleigh.
I try to step back from a situation and view it from another perspective. By being in the South it is virtually impossible but I would look to another country.
Portugal was one of the greatest colonial powers in the World. They had many colonies all over the world. The largest was Brazil. At one point the main power of Portugal was in Brazil but there was a civil war, or rebellion. Portugal lost and Brazil won it's independence. This would echo across the world and would lead to many other colonies following suit. Leading to the Portuguese version of Vietnam a century later. Of which I have family fight in Africa for Portugal.
You may ask why this is relevant. My real last name is Da Rosa. It was changed when my father came to America from Portugal. I am Portuguese. I take great pride in being Portuguese. However, if you want to insult someone who is Portuguese try calling them Brazilian. It is insulting and ignorant to me. It is not even on the same continent. It is more common than one would think.
Some may think this is nonsense but that that is exactly my point. You may see it as trivial but to some it is not. You may see it as the Confederate Flag but you may find that person that lost a family members in the past battling the confederacy. To that person it is not trivial.
While in a place of employment you should act in a professional manner. The only flag I wear is the American flag. I don't have a Portuguese flag on my car but will sport my Portugal jersey during their short span in the world cup. You wouldn't want to come across any other way that you maybe perceived in an less than professional manner. If they were off base I don't see an issue with it or if they were in a private capacity. If you are a leader and you have a Confederate flag across your back window and that young African-American soldier you just got in from Mississippi may view you in a whole different light.
I try to step back from a situation and view it from another perspective. By being in the South it is virtually impossible but I would look to another country.
Portugal was one of the greatest colonial powers in the World. They had many colonies all over the world. The largest was Brazil. At one point the main power of Portugal was in Brazil but there was a civil war, or rebellion. Portugal lost and Brazil won it's independence. This would echo across the world and would lead to many other colonies following suit. Leading to the Portuguese version of Vietnam a century later. Of which I have family fight in Africa for Portugal.
You may ask why this is relevant. My real last name is Da Rosa. It was changed when my father came to America from Portugal. I am Portuguese. I take great pride in being Portuguese. However, if you want to insult someone who is Portuguese try calling them Brazilian. It is insulting and ignorant to me. It is not even on the same continent. It is more common than one would think.
Some may think this is nonsense but that that is exactly my point. You may see it as trivial but to some it is not. You may see it as the Confederate Flag but you may find that person that lost a family members in the past battling the confederacy. To that person it is not trivial.
While in a place of employment you should act in a professional manner. The only flag I wear is the American flag. I don't have a Portuguese flag on my car but will sport my Portugal jersey during their short span in the world cup. You wouldn't want to come across any other way that you maybe perceived in an less than professional manner. If they were off base I don't see an issue with it or if they were in a private capacity. If you are a leader and you have a Confederate flag across your back window and that young African-American soldier you just got in from Mississippi may view you in a whole different light.
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CPT (Join to see)
The point being one may not to intend to offend someone with their actions and do it anyway. If they were in a professional manner it wouldn't be an issue.
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CPT (Join to see)
My last was Da Rosa. My dad came from the Azores Islands but when they got process the Da was dropped. I feel your pain.
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I am proud to be from the south, and more importantly, from Texas. My answer will be short and to the point. I don't celebrate failure. I am not proud of failure. If someone thinks it makes them a "rebel" to display that flag...then good on them. It makes it easier to recognize people I want nothing to do with. If you are a person that is so simple that you have an emotional connection the confederate flag....well...you are a dumb ass. I'm sure if you stepped out into traffic the world would miss the contributions you would have made.
There is only one flag I am loyal to. If This seems harsh, good. I take disloyalty to the flag of the United States of America very personal. And that is exactly what this is...don't try to twist it into something else. If you do, then you would be a disloyal coward. Our country, not ourselves.
There is only one flag I am loyal to. If This seems harsh, good. I take disloyalty to the flag of the United States of America very personal. And that is exactly what this is...don't try to twist it into something else. If you do, then you would be a disloyal coward. Our country, not ourselves.
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PFC Eric Minchey
Any really astute student of history would know that history is written by the victors & that writing something down & calling it history doesn't make it the truth.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
The history of WWII, particularly the chapter on Nazism is written by the victors, still doesn't make it untrue.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC, I like that you speak up. However history is not written by the winners, not in modern times. The provable facts, generally based in physical evidence is recorded then we go through a 40 year cycle where we flip the good guys around for a while. Finally the experts in the field settle to a general agreement on events and snipe at each other over details while the rest of the country watches the history channel and keeps repeating the first 40 year cycle.
I pulled the 40 year number out of my ass but it seems about right.
I pulled the 40 year number out of my ass but it seems about right.
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It's pretty simple - the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (though often proportioned more like the Second Confederate Naval Jack) is a symbol of the south. If someone takes issue with it, they take issue with my adopted homeland and therefore with me.
Is it disruptive? It's only so if someone insists on being disrupted by it. I can't be held responsible if small-minded people prejudge me based on the flag. So long as the CO does not ban it, I will fly it. And if the CO does ban it, I will remove it from my truck... and then file a complaint with the CMEO over the discriminatory practice.
Is it disruptive? It's only so if someone insists on being disrupted by it. I can't be held responsible if small-minded people prejudge me based on the flag. So long as the CO does not ban it, I will fly it. And if the CO does ban it, I will remove it from my truck... and then file a complaint with the CMEO over the discriminatory practice.
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CPO Rick Felty
I agree with you Cpl. brown, now. After his last comment, I know he is spouting shit, younger and more stupid. Time for us to let this. Wart faced troll to go back under the bridge and pick his nose. Or his ass and then his nose . Lol. He is so stupid...he won't. Print an address coz I IWILL go to Texas and. Kick his ass. Let's not feed this. Shitbirds any longer. Lol
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MSG James Devereaux
Is this possible! A LT is the only one with any common sense. My army is not the same. Just joking LT, glad to see our future leaders display such common sense and understanding of American history. Thanks
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Sgt Richard Sprague
Neiether the Confederate or Nazi flag should be allowed to fly in the United States. Both the Flags represent Countries that fought against the United States.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Sgt Richard Sprague - As have the Brits, Italians, Germans, Mexicans, and plenty of others. Yet nobody thinks twice about it when someone has a Mexican flag on their vehicle. Should the Italian flag be stripped from the base pizza joint?
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When I was Active Duty, I had a Confederate flag bumper sticker on my car. I'm from Alabama, and it had always been a simple symbol of my southern heritage. Back home, you could see them everywhere in little towns. I never viewed it as a racist symbol. Many of my relatives were Civil War soldiers and died under that flag. Ignorant bigots hijacked it and turned it into a representation of hate.
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LCDR (Join to see)
That's also very one-sided. What other things do we apply that to? Certain races? Certain religions? How about political parties - should I use Sen. Byrd to say that all Democrats should be labelled as racist?
In this case, that argument seems to just be an excuse for continued prejudice against Dixie.
In this case, that argument seems to just be an excuse for continued prejudice against Dixie.
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SSgt John Carroll
Close-minded stereotyping, profiling & prejudice claiming half the country is racist. No matter what facts given people keep plowing over information like this.
Never-mind the fact no one really seems bothered by the fact 10 Army bases are named after confederate generals.
Since all this seems to be rooted in people assuming things on topics that have no modern correlation with each other; Here's an interesting fact: on the back of the dollar bill is a pyramid. Pyramids were "Built by the Egyptians." In other words Egyptians (usually black) had their Jewish (usually white) slaves build the Pyramids. So by this kind of logic we should ban the dollar bill too since the back side of it is racist against white people.
Never-mind the fact no one really seems bothered by the fact 10 Army bases are named after confederate generals.
Since all this seems to be rooted in people assuming things on topics that have no modern correlation with each other; Here's an interesting fact: on the back of the dollar bill is a pyramid. Pyramids were "Built by the Egyptians." In other words Egyptians (usually black) had their Jewish (usually white) slaves build the Pyramids. So by this kind of logic we should ban the dollar bill too since the back side of it is racist against white people.
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CPO (Join to see)
Totally agree. My Great Grandfather fought for VA. I am proud of his commitment to the cause he believed in. I have friends that are all colors...I judge friends based on character not color.
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While everyone is entitled to their own feelings and thoughts, we as military professionals need to think seriously about how, when, and where we express them. Common sense would tell me that showing/wearing/flying the confederate flag on a military installation probably is in bad taste, and I know that I would be openly inviting conflict. I am pretty sure that individual was looking for a debate/fight, or they wouldnt have done it to begin with.
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SGT (Join to see)
Debate never entered my mind. I went straight from Atlanta, Ga., to Fort Rucker, AL, and onto Fort Hood, Texas. Never really thought about the Rebel Flag being offensive.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC James Sczymanski, I just live here. I'm definitely not an Okie. Gotta know when to hold 'em.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Now if they are dispalying the flag in an overt display of racist or hate group affiliation (ie KKK) then it's a definate no go.
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PO3 John Jeter
Occasionally I see the Confederate flag used as a "wind flag" at the head of tows on the ICW. They usually have the words "Heritage Not Hatred" on them. Most of the larger towing companies have rules banning anything but specific flags any more though. Usually company flags.....
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CPT (Join to see)
You state it pretty well. That is what it comes down too. I have been told in the past you can do whatever you want as long your rank can handle it, if not you will be losing it.
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I personally don't have a problem with that flag. Yes many people have different views of its meaning and what it stands for. I think the bigger issue is everyone in this country is offended by something a flag, the name of a football team a cross etc. Seems like most folks say they believe in the 1st amendment, liberty and the pursuit of happiness unless it offends me. Next thing you now someone won't like my cowboy boots and I will have to give them up. Silly I know but that's the world today!
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1SG (Join to see)
MSgt (Join to see) On target! Seems that as our society becomes more liberal, a new liberal dictionary comes into play, where now if you "disagree" with them, they are now "Offended"! Which often causes me to tell them to look up the definition of "Up Yours!"
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1SG (Join to see)
Well Well, MSgt (Join to see) , SPC Charles Brown it seems that CPL Torrence Williams has been offended and has shown it with his Thumbs Down, yet with no reason why! Kinda backs up what was said! And apparently he has no opinion....yet we're wrong! ROFLMAO!
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I have a Rebel Flag Sticker on my back window on my car only because of my school South Laurel Academy Rebels My diploma has a confederate soldier on one side and a Rebel Flag on the other! People have taken this flag wrong there is nothing wrong with it! Its apart of American history!
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Bottom line, you can't just wave a magic wand and expect all that has been represented by the Confederate Flag to go away just because you say so. If you want me to take you seriously about the "Heritage not Hate" bullshit, then convert to Buddhism and fly a swastika flag ..... THEN I'll take you seriously.
To insist that blacks MUST accept your version of what the flag is a symbol of and no other is to minimize how we've been treated, and how some of us are still treated today. That in and of itself makes me just want to walk away from you and not even know you.
To insist that blacks MUST accept your version of what the flag is a symbol of and no other is to minimize how we've been treated, and how some of us are still treated today. That in and of itself makes me just want to walk away from you and not even know you.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Where did you post this, CPL Williams? I just discovered this answer and would really like to see that discussion.
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