Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 326
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During my first tour in Korea, my roommate had a Confederate flag on his wall. Our African-American 1SG did not mind my roommate having that flag while performing a barracks inspection however he was upset that my roommate had a People's Republic of China flag.
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A couple of things.
1. Anytime someone quotes a Regulation they need to be able to find it. There have been a couple of times that someone tried to use a reg for why I had no authority to do something. When I looked them up, they either did not say what they thought or it was changed. always verify.
2. The Confederate flag has different meanings dependent of how informed a person is on its history. If they want to be indignant on something they do not understand they will be. Most will not look in to its history. A Buddhist symbol is just like a swastika to someone that does not know the difference. The swastika has been in use for thousands of years before Hitler and in many cultures it still means eternal life.
3. I would say if you have an issue with something like a flag or bumper sticker on my car or bag you can take to me about it. Talk not yell. If you are in the mental state that you have to replace a honest logical conversation with yelling then you have stopped caring about the meaning and just want to yell till you win. At that point I will stop listening.
1. Anytime someone quotes a Regulation they need to be able to find it. There have been a couple of times that someone tried to use a reg for why I had no authority to do something. When I looked them up, they either did not say what they thought or it was changed. always verify.
2. The Confederate flag has different meanings dependent of how informed a person is on its history. If they want to be indignant on something they do not understand they will be. Most will not look in to its history. A Buddhist symbol is just like a swastika to someone that does not know the difference. The swastika has been in use for thousands of years before Hitler and in many cultures it still means eternal life.
3. I would say if you have an issue with something like a flag or bumper sticker on my car or bag you can take to me about it. Talk not yell. If you are in the mental state that you have to replace a honest logical conversation with yelling then you have stopped caring about the meaning and just want to yell till you win. At that point I will stop listening.
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@CPT Aaron Kletzing, @1LT Sandy Annala, Please see, LCpl James Robertson's response to MAJ Jason Miller re: the Confederate Flag. His is an extremely moving reminder of preducices most Americans are not aware of! Discussions such as this are very disturbing.
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personally...whenever I see it being flown at events like a concert or a diesel truck show ( I dont go to those, but I live by the fair grounds that hosts one every year) I just point and laugh and think to myself "idiots!"
I also do not think it should be flown for the very simple reason...they are flags of a nation whose ass we kicked in war...yes, Virgina, the north DID win the Civil War...so, no, it should not be flown...or be given any special favor...its the flag of a losing side...
I also do not think it should be flown for the very simple reason...they are flags of a nation whose ass we kicked in war...yes, Virgina, the north DID win the Civil War...so, no, it should not be flown...or be given any special favor...its the flag of a losing side...
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I was doing a websearch for the Philippine KKK flag and found that the Sons of Confederate Veterans have been "fighting" against the KKK for use of the American Flag. The KKK have been flying the American Flag for decades.
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Excellent topic... and I am way late.
I know this is not new, but this has been on my list since I left NJ in 1980... As a NJ resident, this flag/symbol etc always meant racism, white supremacy, and hate to me; plain and simple. I am educated, and I understand this particular symbol has different meanings to different people, based on where you are from, and even what color you are.
I have listened to both sides, and ultimately it is about what others think it means, not what you think it means. I see it, today, as insensitive and out of bounds. If I could, I would outlaw it.
Aside from personal feelings (bias/prejudice), I first saw this an issue, when I was at West Point, at an Army Football Game. Army was playing the Citadel, and all their fans were waving the confederate flag in the visiting teams seats... It was not well received and very emotional to many... At West Point, in NY, and in the Army, it was not considered to be a good thing... The Citadel crowd just saw it as normal...
Another time, as a TAC Officer, I had to explain to a Cadet (Plebe/Freshman) from Georgia, who had a full size confederate flag in his room, why he should not/could not have this displayed...
Now that I deal with HS students, this is actually part of the curriculum (Cultural Diversity, and being a Leader in a culturally diverse world). We actually discuss this and many other symbols. Still, since our student population is over 75% military family members, who move around a lot, the opinions are varied. This is actually one of my favorite classes.
I generally ask the Cadets how they would feel if their leader had this as a tattoo, or how would they feel if they reported to their leader and that leader had this flag hanging behind their desk (I have actually seen that).
In the end, they are all symbols, and as a leader you need to focus on what it means to everyone, not just the one displaying it.
I know this is not new, but this has been on my list since I left NJ in 1980... As a NJ resident, this flag/symbol etc always meant racism, white supremacy, and hate to me; plain and simple. I am educated, and I understand this particular symbol has different meanings to different people, based on where you are from, and even what color you are.
I have listened to both sides, and ultimately it is about what others think it means, not what you think it means. I see it, today, as insensitive and out of bounds. If I could, I would outlaw it.
Aside from personal feelings (bias/prejudice), I first saw this an issue, when I was at West Point, at an Army Football Game. Army was playing the Citadel, and all their fans were waving the confederate flag in the visiting teams seats... It was not well received and very emotional to many... At West Point, in NY, and in the Army, it was not considered to be a good thing... The Citadel crowd just saw it as normal...
Another time, as a TAC Officer, I had to explain to a Cadet (Plebe/Freshman) from Georgia, who had a full size confederate flag in his room, why he should not/could not have this displayed...
Now that I deal with HS students, this is actually part of the curriculum (Cultural Diversity, and being a Leader in a culturally diverse world). We actually discuss this and many other symbols. Still, since our student population is over 75% military family members, who move around a lot, the opinions are varied. This is actually one of my favorite classes.
I generally ask the Cadets how they would feel if their leader had this as a tattoo, or how would they feel if they reported to their leader and that leader had this flag hanging behind their desk (I have actually seen that).
In the end, they are all symbols, and as a leader you need to focus on what it means to everyone, not just the one displaying it.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Sir,
If we're going to focus on it as a symbol, then we have to fully regard it as such, including what it means when we denigrate or attempt to ban that symbol. As a southerner, if I'm told to take it off my truck, what I hear loud and clear is "we welcome everyone but you, Hillbilly."
If we're going to focus on it as a symbol, then we have to fully regard it as such, including what it means when we denigrate or attempt to ban that symbol. As a southerner, if I'm told to take it off my truck, what I hear loud and clear is "we welcome everyone but you, Hillbilly."
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I think people are offended for the wrong reasons.
You should be offended by our countries education system. Offended by people actively telling others to not vaccinate their children.
This is a non issue. People making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you're offended by this, then I say, 'so what. Who gives a fuck. Grow thicker skin.'
You should be offended by our countries education system. Offended by people actively telling others to not vaccinate their children.
This is a non issue. People making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you're offended by this, then I say, 'so what. Who gives a fuck. Grow thicker skin.'
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As I have seen the flag used a symbol that many people raise issue with this particular flag of the Confederacy. To the point historically when they use this flag in such a way they are using not the Flag of the Confederate States of America, but they are using a symbol use by the Confederate Army only to help ensure to communicate in the heat and fog of battle that Southern Regiments could be identified due to the fact the Confederate Flag was 3 bars with blue patch with stars in a circle, one star for each star. Much like the flag of the Revolutionary war, but in the early battles this caused confusion with southern troops firing upon their own. So the more well known Battle Flag came about. My attitude about it is w
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Is why let it cause you to hate or anything. It is historical artifact that some honor, due to family heritage. Much like many of us who can trace our roots back to 1812 and 1775 do today, as was those that serve on the Union side. The Confederate loses during those 5 years can't be ignored today, and should not have been on the past. We were all Americans, as we are today.
It's a shame that it took until this war to abolish Slavery in the U.S. This War didn't start out to free the slaves to begin with, it was about individual state rights, and other economical issue the Southern States had at the time. During the war, Lincoln was oppose of freeing the slaves at the start, but as the war continued. To deprive one enemy of it resources, President Lincoln then free them. So how this flag became a symbolic for the suppression of group of people is beyond anything other than fear and hatred instilled by people who refuse to accept they had lost the war. A change of live was upon America, and sadly it women would get far more Rights, before all Americans were equal in eyes of the law, throughout the land.
So Specialist Jones wants to wear shirt displaying the Confederate Battle Flag so be it. If Captain Hellen want a plate as a Confederate Battle Flag, so be it. When Sergeant First C lass Grant a tart handing out cards and literature for a racist group meeting, well that has no place on the military, period.
It's a shame that it took until this war to abolish Slavery in the U.S. This War didn't start out to free the slaves to begin with, it was about individual state rights, and other economical issue the Southern States had at the time. During the war, Lincoln was oppose of freeing the slaves at the start, but as the war continued. To deprive one enemy of it resources, President Lincoln then free them. So how this flag became a symbolic for the suppression of group of people is beyond anything other than fear and hatred instilled by people who refuse to accept they had lost the war. A change of live was upon America, and sadly it women would get far more Rights, before all Americans were equal in eyes of the law, throughout the land.
So Specialist Jones wants to wear shirt displaying the Confederate Battle Flag so be it. If Captain Hellen want a plate as a Confederate Battle Flag, so be it. When Sergeant First C lass Grant a tart handing out cards and literature for a racist group meeting, well that has no place on the military, period.
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The Brazilian Town Where the American Confederacy Lives On | VICE | United States
The Confederados are one of the last remaining enclaves of the children of the unreconstructed South.
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