Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 326
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Being born and raised in the South, I have an affinity for the Confederate Battle Flag, however I also know the deep-seated animosity felt towards it because of it's use by the KKK and other hate groups. When I was stationed at Ft. Carson, '88-'91, the Garrison Commander banned it from display on any and all vehicles so as to prevent any ill feelings. This was done in response to a heightening of tensions between African-American and Caucasian Soldiers at the time, he also banned any and all clothing, flags etc portraying the late Malcolm X as they were in fashion at the time in a promotion of resistance/outrage against the government/and many Caucasians.
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LCDR (Join to see)
While I see that as giving in to the heckler's veto, the fact that he swatted down both sides would prevent me from having any hard feelings or resistance to it.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
Agreed sir, while I was never a flag waving individual, the fact that he laid the smack down evenly across the board made it easier to accept for all.
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CPO Rick Felty
As a. Commander in charge of the base. He. Just laid down command policy evenly. There was a time before your time maybe, when women could not wear shorts in the BX nor could a person go in. Wearing a T shirt plain or not. There was even a time when BDU's were not to be worm off base let alone in a bar or restaurant. Stricter times. In the military should return to all commands.
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I have been dealing with higher ranking telling me to take the Confederate flag off of the front of my truck (since i have no front license plate for the state i put a rebel flag plate on it) the flag by no means has any rude or insulting meaning but according to the higher rankings it's article 15 worthy but there no rules or regulation against it from what i looked up. Someone help me if therw any regs please site them to me
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You can make a very good intellectual argument that the confederate battle flag is just a southern symboland not a symbol for slavery. For example the Hawaii flag has the union jack which represents Britain which actually introduced slavery to North America and no one says a word, the Georgia flag is actually based on the Confederate national flag and no one has issue with it. Reaction to the "stars and bars" battle flag is purely emotional and displaying it as an American soldier is probably currently in poor taste.
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As a Platoon Leader during the early 1970’s this issue surfaced while we were in the field. A soldier had displayed the stars and bars flag. I had the Plt. Sgt. assemble the platoon for a history class. I gave a brief overview of the wars fought against the Stars and Stripes. Then I ask the question if anyone thought it be appropriate to fly the union jack, the rising sun, the iron cross & etc., carefully skipping the stars and bars. Almost 100% said it would not be appropriate. Then I ask why then would it be appropriate to fly the stars and bars while swearing allegiance to our country enemies, both foreign and domestic. A soldier got up and went to his flag pole and removed his flag and apologized to all present. This worked for me, at that time, and maybe difussed a potential situation. Every situation is unique and each group has their own group personality.
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A few of my Soldiers asked me about this and I said it is simple. We have one flag, Old Glory. Furthermore, if things like this offend your bro/sis in arms, is it really worth it to fly the Confederate Flag?
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As long as you don't mind me smoking near it...with an Oxy Acetylene torch. No issues what so ever.
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Just like how folks on here have commented about hair styles, or regs or anything like that... its the military, suck it up buttercup. AD soldiers don't have freedom of speech. They lose it when they go it don't like it don't join. The flag means different things to different people but the fact of the matter is, its not the flag that represents America.
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Like it or not, the Confederate flag (stars and bars) is just like old glory, a part of American history... And Most of those complaining about the flag really know nothing of the flag... In it's beginning, it had NOTHING to do with the hate, bigotry, and racism as it it's depicted by the unknowing bunch... It wasn't until AFTER THE NORTHERN DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS created the KKK (who adopted the Confederate flag as their symbol) to keep Uncle Tom and the rest of the former slaves in line thru threats and violence towards them...I know if many educated black men and women who will outright tell you there is nothing wrong with the flag and that it it's a part of our American history... Or as we say in the South, HERITAGE, NOT HATE
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LCpl James Robertson
I fly the American Flag, or your now telling me as a black man its okay to fly the Confederate Flag. You are speaking from a white point of view, where that flag have no significance to you but a Battle Flag. In every occasion where crosses were burned by the KKK, that flag took black people back to a time of beatings and being hanged by a rope. There are stores in the south that black people still frequent for gas and other products, that reminds blacks of how slaves were treated in the south, we can see it in the hearts of the store owners, about everything in the store from flag artifacts to other items reminds us that we are in the wrong store. In those stores blacks have to be mindful to get there gas and go, because if and argument comes up on any issue, guess who goes to jail, the Sheriff or Police will believe the store owner. I attended a KKK Parade, which you will see from time to time in the south. I felt like a fish out of water, in the things the protestors were saying: White Power, the niggers are taking our jobs. All the protestors had either a Chevy pickup or a Ford pickup with that Confederate Flag on the back, there looks at blacks who attended said a thousand words, we were looked at like trash. My question is how do we become united as one nation, under a Flag that oppressed us for so long and still exist, to tear this country apart.
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In a recent email I received.......It seems appropriate given the nature of this site....:
" It was the 12th of April 1861. General Gordon led the Confederates. He had been shot five times at Antietam, and was nursing a bullet wound from 18 days ago. General Chamberlain commanded the Federals. He was also aching from a chest wound received two weeks ago, his sixth serious battle injury. Two remarkable generals, and some of the most rugged soldiers in history, closed on each other. Their meeting was arranged three days ago, at Appomattox: Gordon to surrender arms and flags, Chamberlain to receive them. In Chamberlain’s words:
“Before us…stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now…with eyes looking level into ours…. was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested?”
What happened next was not part of the plan. Chamberlain had the bugle blown and his entire line came to attention: “Gordon at the head of the column, riding with heavy spirit… catches the sound of shifting arms, looks up, and, taking the meaning, wheels superbly, making with himself and his horse one uplifted figure…as he drops the point of his sword to the boot toe; then facing to his own command, gives word for his successive brigades to pass us with the same position of the manual, honor answering honor.” The last salute, given and returned, was a fitting honor to former foes."
As far as I'm concerned.....
Heritage, Never Hatred.
" It was the 12th of April 1861. General Gordon led the Confederates. He had been shot five times at Antietam, and was nursing a bullet wound from 18 days ago. General Chamberlain commanded the Federals. He was also aching from a chest wound received two weeks ago, his sixth serious battle injury. Two remarkable generals, and some of the most rugged soldiers in history, closed on each other. Their meeting was arranged three days ago, at Appomattox: Gordon to surrender arms and flags, Chamberlain to receive them. In Chamberlain’s words:
“Before us…stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now…with eyes looking level into ours…. was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested?”
What happened next was not part of the plan. Chamberlain had the bugle blown and his entire line came to attention: “Gordon at the head of the column, riding with heavy spirit… catches the sound of shifting arms, looks up, and, taking the meaning, wheels superbly, making with himself and his horse one uplifted figure…as he drops the point of his sword to the boot toe; then facing to his own command, gives word for his successive brigades to pass us with the same position of the manual, honor answering honor.” The last salute, given and returned, was a fitting honor to former foes."
As far as I'm concerned.....
Heritage, Never Hatred.
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1) I'm a big supporter of 1st Amendment rights and I personally find it insulting that the very people who have sworn an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States" are the first to be forced to surrender those freedoms. That said, if someone wants to fly the Confederate flag on their vehicle or person, on or off post, by all means let them.
2) I personally think the Confederate flag is a symbol of traitors to the United States. At the end of the day, it was flown by an entity whose purpose was to dissolve our country. To me, anybody who flies that flag holds that same mentality - they believe that an enemy of the Constitution should have prevailed and been allowed to split the country in two. And that's without even taking into account all of the racist overtones and attitudes that flag has come to represent.
Question 3 doesn't really apply... I haven't experienced this yet - and I hope not to.
2) I personally think the Confederate flag is a symbol of traitors to the United States. At the end of the day, it was flown by an entity whose purpose was to dissolve our country. To me, anybody who flies that flag holds that same mentality - they believe that an enemy of the Constitution should have prevailed and been allowed to split the country in two. And that's without even taking into account all of the racist overtones and attitudes that flag has come to represent.
Question 3 doesn't really apply... I haven't experienced this yet - and I hope not to.
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