Posted on Nov 1, 2015
Do you think the Air Force should replace the waist measurement with pull ups?
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Many people disagree with the waist measurement within the AF pt test, I don't disagree with the measurement but more so it's value. I would suggest the waist measurement still be done just like height weight is and should you exceed the standard then it is noted in your official medical record. Add pull ups to the test as I think this would determine a well rounded fitness ability of cardio and strength. Should you at a later date develop a disease or condition that can be traced back to obesity then Tricare or VA wouldn't not cover your treatment. What's your opinion?
Fitness
Air Force
PFT
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 14
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We're talking about a few different issues here.
The "ties to obesity" issue is really a non-starter. Here's why. Any chance that an "insurance provider" can use to not pay for treatment, they will. Get flagged overweight/bodycomp one time, and those knee injuries become your problem, not the governments, even though you jumped out of planes for a living. Obesity exacerbates joint problems. Or reverse the situation, torque a knee, and put on 10lb, and get flagged for weight while you are healing, and now the entire situation is your fault. See the issue?
AS for pull ups, they are a decent measure of upper body strength, but they are comparable to push-ups. I actually have a harder time with push-ups than pull-ups, just because I'm able to use different muscle groups. It's never really been a cardio exercise for me though, just because the event is so short.
The "ties to obesity" issue is really a non-starter. Here's why. Any chance that an "insurance provider" can use to not pay for treatment, they will. Get flagged overweight/bodycomp one time, and those knee injuries become your problem, not the governments, even though you jumped out of planes for a living. Obesity exacerbates joint problems. Or reverse the situation, torque a knee, and put on 10lb, and get flagged for weight while you are healing, and now the entire situation is your fault. See the issue?
AS for pull ups, they are a decent measure of upper body strength, but they are comparable to push-ups. I actually have a harder time with push-ups than pull-ups, just because I'm able to use different muscle groups. It's never really been a cardio exercise for me though, just because the event is so short.
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First things first I don't think that there should be anything that bars someone from receiving their coverage. If you stayed in the service long enough to earn that right then it shouldn't be snatched from you under any basis other than maybe intentional self harm.
Now, for the waste measurement I think it should stay but as others have said I don't feel as though it should be a determining factor toward failure. So long as you can prove that it isn't hindering you as far as the other components go and you're not bursting out of your uniforms you should be good but it can still be a good thing to keep on your mind to stay healthy.
As for the pull ups, I don't really see the need unless you are talking drop the push ups too. No sense in making people do two strength tests on essentially the same areas of the body. I think push ups work fine right now anyway.
What I do think we should do (although I know it will never happen) is have career field based PT tests. This would be a better fit for the waste measurement as I still think every AFSC should look relatively fit and healthy in all uniform combinations. Where things would start to change is the actual strength and aerobic portions of the test. I don't think someone in Finance, Personnel or even Weather for that matter really needs to run a mile and a half. Realistically I can't think of any situation where someone is going to run a mile and a half straight without a stop at some point anyway, especially in a combat situation as you're just making yourself a slightly moving target for A MILE AND A HALF. You're going to stop to take cover and assess the situation at some point there. The only case where I will argue a career field should have to run the distance is Security Forces for their law enforcement functions.
The same goes for the strength portion of the test. Here in weather I think that's the component we should focus on because we have field weather equipment that isn't extremely heavy but can be tough to move by ones self depending on how strong the person is. We should all be required to be able to transport, set up and tear down said equipment as an individual without assistance for our physical test. Someone in Finance shouldn't though because they don't have any aspect of their job that requires that ability.
Basically we need to make our PT test more field oriented. Look at what we might have to do in an operational setting and find ways to tune the test to that. Some things should be standard, a body carry/drag could be implemented because any one of us could be in a situation where we need to get a wounded wingman to safety. Things like that are what we should focus on. Obviously the FAC would no longer be able to run PT tests because there would be so many different varieties but you could make administration of the Fitness Test a career field special duty. Said individuals would also be the unit PTLs who would be the leaders of individual unit PT to make sure people are keeping up with the standards.
That would be my idea of perfect Air Force PT. It would be one hell of a pain in the ass to implement but I think it would work better than the one we have now.
Now, for the waste measurement I think it should stay but as others have said I don't feel as though it should be a determining factor toward failure. So long as you can prove that it isn't hindering you as far as the other components go and you're not bursting out of your uniforms you should be good but it can still be a good thing to keep on your mind to stay healthy.
As for the pull ups, I don't really see the need unless you are talking drop the push ups too. No sense in making people do two strength tests on essentially the same areas of the body. I think push ups work fine right now anyway.
What I do think we should do (although I know it will never happen) is have career field based PT tests. This would be a better fit for the waste measurement as I still think every AFSC should look relatively fit and healthy in all uniform combinations. Where things would start to change is the actual strength and aerobic portions of the test. I don't think someone in Finance, Personnel or even Weather for that matter really needs to run a mile and a half. Realistically I can't think of any situation where someone is going to run a mile and a half straight without a stop at some point anyway, especially in a combat situation as you're just making yourself a slightly moving target for A MILE AND A HALF. You're going to stop to take cover and assess the situation at some point there. The only case where I will argue a career field should have to run the distance is Security Forces for their law enforcement functions.
The same goes for the strength portion of the test. Here in weather I think that's the component we should focus on because we have field weather equipment that isn't extremely heavy but can be tough to move by ones self depending on how strong the person is. We should all be required to be able to transport, set up and tear down said equipment as an individual without assistance for our physical test. Someone in Finance shouldn't though because they don't have any aspect of their job that requires that ability.
Basically we need to make our PT test more field oriented. Look at what we might have to do in an operational setting and find ways to tune the test to that. Some things should be standard, a body carry/drag could be implemented because any one of us could be in a situation where we need to get a wounded wingman to safety. Things like that are what we should focus on. Obviously the FAC would no longer be able to run PT tests because there would be so many different varieties but you could make administration of the Fitness Test a career field special duty. Said individuals would also be the unit PTLs who would be the leaders of individual unit PT to make sure people are keeping up with the standards.
That would be my idea of perfect Air Force PT. It would be one hell of a pain in the ass to implement but I think it would work better than the one we have now.
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SSgt Paul Esquibel
So you wouldn't consider obesity intentional self harm as due to poor choices in foods and and daily living?
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SrA Matthew Knight
SSgt Paul Esquibel - Nope. I don't know that there are many people that wake up and decide "You know what, I want to be fat now." Could they make better health choices? Sure they could. But I wouldn't call it intentional self harm.
When I mention intentional self harm I speak more about people that are cutting or smoking or doing drugs. Things like that. Now I know the smoking/tobacco one will probably get some people upset with me but I feel there is a huge difference between someone who eats too much or eats foods that aren't considered "Health Foods" and someone who smokes a cigarette or chews which has no value what so ever to the body and causes harm to various body parts.
So no, I don't think obesity should be seen as self harm and I don't think it should par people from their insurance benefits. As my grandfather got older he found himself getting naturally weaker, ended up with diabetes and ended up gaining a lot of weight as a result of his inability to exercise for very long. Why should he have had his insurance stop supporting him for that?
When I mention intentional self harm I speak more about people that are cutting or smoking or doing drugs. Things like that. Now I know the smoking/tobacco one will probably get some people upset with me but I feel there is a huge difference between someone who eats too much or eats foods that aren't considered "Health Foods" and someone who smokes a cigarette or chews which has no value what so ever to the body and causes harm to various body parts.
So no, I don't think obesity should be seen as self harm and I don't think it should par people from their insurance benefits. As my grandfather got older he found himself getting naturally weaker, ended up with diabetes and ended up gaining a lot of weight as a result of his inability to exercise for very long. Why should he have had his insurance stop supporting him for that?
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I don't have a problem with the waist but I also don't think you should fail a pt test if you achieve a passing composition score. Adding another arm workout is retarded though.
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