Posted on May 24, 2014
CMDCM Gene Treants
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Do you believe the bill of rights is outdated and should be either dropped in its entirety or at least rewritten
My Goddaughter seems to be very representative of many people in her generation in believing that the Second Amendment is totally outdated and needs to be eliminated. As with many on the left, she feels that no individual has any need for a handgun.

Additionally, do we really need the First Amendment since one of its previsions deals with religion and seems to discriminate against atheists and agnostics?

So, how many down votes will I get for even posting a controversial question like this?
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Responses: 241
MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
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Too many responses...won't read them (no offense) as to not be influenced by other's opinions.

Leave it as is. Tell your goddaughter that the "Bill of Rights" are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution, if she wants the "Bill of Rights" to be amended or dropped all together, we would have to look at all the other amendments as well, such as the revocation of slavery, or the right to vote for women and minorities.....not sure she would be as keen with that.

She needs to actual read the history/learn the history behind the "Bill of Rights" and why the were established, and maybe she would understand why they created in the first place. It was the simple fact (though there were many causes leading up to this point) that the British were going to confiscate firearms that the Revolution went into a Hot status....would she rather be British or American?...the British didn't think we "needed" to have them....and the colonists wanted them and believed they needed them.

You should pose the question to her why she thinks no one "needs" to have a handgun, or a firearm in general. The only way you might get her to be neutral on the subject is for her to actually give her logic, and if there are holes in that logic, to show her where those holes are.

I have a very liberal friend who's anti-gun period. Then I ask him if I should be able to have one and then he says yes, because I have been trained...(first hole in his logic) and he starts giving excuses....I ask him if someone should be able to have one for home protection, then he says maybe....very few are people are "absolute" anything......just have to expose it to them......another example (not trying to start another debate)...if someone is pro-choice.....ask them if a person should be allowed to have an abortion 1 minute before giving birth...if the answer is no, they're not an absolute pro-choicer. Then ask what about 5 minutes, 1 week, 1 month....ask what's the difference between the 3 month mark and 3 month 1 day mark.....etc.....catch my drift how to have a convo with something contentious/highly charged such as that? Make them defeat their own argument.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
There have been so many responses and she has been studying so many courses since I first posted this question many things have changed. However, she still maintains that hand guns are not needed and I still carry.
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MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
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10 y
Curious, what has changed?

Has she actually elaborated on why she thinks handguns are not needed?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
that has NOT changed, that has been her position all along. No private citizens need or should have weapons of any type, handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc.
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MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
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10 y
Right, what I'm saying is with these types of folks who are absolutists on a position...you need to get them to actually elaborate why they are an absolutist, and then shoot holes in their argument or show them their contradictions / give them scenarios where they might make exceptions to their policy...you have to get them to convince themselves that they are not absolutists on a subject.
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I am always troubled by the attacks on both the 1st and 2nd Amendments. imho, both sides are wrong on this...
SGT Instructor/Project Manager
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10 y
Please cite a specific example of where your first amendment has been under attack from the right I am curious.
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Quite often, public ceremonies include prayer. Only in very recent years have they been non-denominational. Throughout most of my military career and before, ceremony prayers were made in the name of Jesus - a very problematic issue for a Jew or anyone of any religion aside from Christianity.

Even having legislators state, from their Lecturn, that this is a "Christian Country" is an assault, because it's too easy to lose track of the reality.

Any one who exists in the category of "other" in society quite often feels threatened, and their rights trampled on. I am not saying that people do this deliberately - most do it quite innocently. If you know of no other paradigm, it's a challenge to not marginalize the "other".
SGT Instructor/Project Manager
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Thank you for your response quite often we don't see far beyond our own circumstances. Your paragraph above gives some insight to something I had never considered being a Christian in America I just took it for granted.
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SGT (Join to see) Thank you for being open to this. Most of people who are majority are never able to see the "other".

It takes a lot of guts and very strong ethics to do this...
LCDR Naval Aviator
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Any laws that old need to be updated, including the 2nd. Unstable people shouldn't be able to get their hands on weapons capable of the kind of massacres we've seen in recent years.
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LCDR Naval Aviator
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10 y
I was about to crack one open right now; first one's to you, SGT!
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LCDR Naval Aviator
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10 y
Since when does the President decide to change the 2nd Amendment without Congress? Your whole premise is flawed based on a lack of civic concepts. As much as the Tea Party would like to convince everybody that King Obummer is going to take their guns and Bibles, you can't change the Bill of Rights without Congress, which is largely Republican. Flawed and ridiculous concept.
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MSgt Denise Smith
MSgt Denise Smith
10 y
LTJG James Jones, If you have not noticed there are laws that are aimed at stopping unbalanced individuals from purchasing weapons. Additionally, if you have not noticed in every case (Virginia Tech, Arizona (Giffords), Colorado (Holmes) the individuals involved had medical issues not reported in anyway to the databases designed to restrict their purchase of firearms. In other cases the individuals involved commited crimes in the process of obtaining their weapons prior to their attacks (Sandy Hook, Columbine).
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LCDR Naval Aviator
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It sounds to me like the laws and background checks weren't strict enough.
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SSgt Christopher Gill
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Several others have posted solid responses regarding the Bill of Rights, so anything I would say would be redundant. I do have a question, however: I'm new here and so far this is the most thoughtful question that I have seen asked, and being military forum, the sum of the responses here is/was a forgone conclusion. Do we go deeper here? Just curious...
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SSgt Christopher Gill
SSgt Christopher Gill
10 y
I've answered my own question. Thanks!
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
I sort of though that you did SSgt Christopher Gill.
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Cpl Jeff N.
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Your grand daughter's view is exactly why the Bill of Rights is so hard to amend. We have plenty of people that would willingly give up freedoms hard fought for to a government out of control.

The first amendment does not guarantee freedom from religion it ensures freedom of religion. As you can see today, religion, in this country, is under assault non stop. It needs to be protected.

We can only hope to survive a generation as out of touch as the current one. A lack of instruction in the Constitution and Bill of Rights as well as other organic documents and historical content has gotten us here.
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SFC Jeff L.
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Seems redundant to even say it. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting, advanced weapons technology, or anything like that. It's there to make sure the citizens of this country always have the ability, should it be needed, to replicate what our forefathers did. To throw off the yoke of tyranny and oppression by our own government.

As to the 1st Amendment, I'd ask how does the guarantee of a religious person to worship as they see fit detract from or prevent an athiest's unbelief?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
SFC Jeff L. I think you are totally correct on the 2nd. As for the 1st, it does not, but rather protects it also.
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CW5 Jim Steddum
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There are provisions for changing the amendments. If people want them changed... they can exercise their rights to try to do so.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
We have done so many times in the past and I am sure that change wil happen again in the future.
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MSG Daniel Talley
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My limited knowledge of world history, b and c in world civ on college, led me to believe countries which turn from their founding ideals fall. Is this incorrect? Must we repeat what so many before us have done?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
MSG Daniel Talley you just got an "A" on your Civics Final.
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SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
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Our youth are not just being sold a load of crap but are buying it with the currency of warrior blood. She needs to visit battlefields and veteran grave sites, study the history of countries without our freedoms to see what can happen without the Bill of Rights. Better yet, go to some of them to see, hear, and smell it for herself.

I have so much more to say, but feel it wouldn't matter to her generation. It's scary to see and hear what they believe and are willing to give away. Very sad too.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
At the same time, she is at least open to asking questions and coming to the right source for answers. BTW, she has been exposed to these places since her very early years by both her dad and her Godfather. ;-)
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SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
10 y
Good point! Great job on exposing her to these places. Thanks for sharing!
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SGT Jim Z.
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Too much blood was lost for the Bill of Rights plain and simple.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
10 y
SGT Jim Z. the first real test of the Constitution came less than 90 years after the founding of the Nation and less than 80 years after the ratification of that document.
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