Posted on May 4, 2016
COL Sam Russell
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DOD directive 1344.10 states:

-A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).)

From the article "Racism Within West Point"
http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 237
MSgt Security Business Analyst
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Even if they can explain their way away from the Black Lives Matter Movement, their gestures could seem demeaning. Anything can be taken out of context, and this is why, while in uniform, you have to be very carful how you act and what you do.

I could care less if they are a bunch of racists morons as long as they do not make their decisions on their personal feelings and bigoted views. Once, they opened that door any 1/2 asses NCO, SNCO, Staff NCO would be able to expose them for who they were.

Hopefully, this is just some stupid lack of good judgment.
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SFC Joseph Weber
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Not sure. If I ever meet one of these hard charging American Soldiers I'll ask her.
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Sgt Edward Padget
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Edited >1 y ago
I'm really confused by this to be honest. I don't understand how these women can do this and not have any repercussions. That being said I'm a middle aged white guy so my black history probably isn't up to snuff. The whole "raised fist" thing reminds me of the Olympics when the black athletes stood on the podiums to accept their medals and then raised their fists. I'm not clear on exactly what that means? Does it mean "Black Power"? If so what does that mean? It's laughable if you think about it. These women are in a military institution but yet proclaiming black power? How does that work? lol Did Black Power get them there? Did Black Power play any part in their military careers up to this point? Clearly I'm at a disadvantage because I simply don't get it. I've withheld researching much into this because in this day and age of information it's way to easy to fall into a pit of misinformation rather than the correct understanding. Maybe their will be some enlightenment from this thread? I'm anxious to see what others think. Just shooting from the hip I'd say these young women are about to find out just how much power they don't have. I think they are ostracizing themselves, and at a military institution I can't think of a dumber plan of action? What is the latest in the outcome of all of this and these students? I did make one small observation of the picture. I went and looked up images for "Black Power" and 99.9% of the images that showed a raised fist and arm stretched out completely. There's only like 3-4 of these students actually following through here, so I'm inclined to think that body language speaks volumes and 80% of these ladies have no idea why or what they are doing. That half hearted attempt they are giving is just that and it'll probably amount to just that....a half hearted attempt at something but they are not really sure what exactly.
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CW4 C-12 Pilot
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Glad you brought up the 68 Olympics. As a brother in arms fighting for freedom around the world, you should be proud of those standing up for freedom at home (spoiler - human rights, not black power): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute
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CMSgt Mickey Wright
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Gents settle down! I'm a Northerner from the Land of Lincoln, however, I'm sure the group of Southerners in your organization will be fine posing like this with the Confederate flag which will cause no discourse or comments because they are demonstrating pride in their diversity and heritage.
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Sgt Patrick Carron
Sgt Patrick Carron
>1 y
I have no problems with the rebel flag. I see history associated with it; whereas others see hatred, and that is there God-given right. In no way am I saying that they are wrong. With that being said, I would still have issue with young cadets posing with a rebel flag and posting it as these young women did. Young people need to understand that their actions have an affect on more than just themselves. Granted, society has gotten softer and people's feelings seem to be getting hurt more often than not, but everyone needs to be cautious of what they post because it can be taken out of context.
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Sgt Patrick Carron
Sgt Patrick Carron
>1 y
Correction: After re-reading my post, it comes off as I am saying that these young women posed with a rebel flag. I am obviously wrong and have a mistype. Please excuse the error. I guess proofreading before I post could save alot of embarrassment in the long run. Just as thinking before posting a picture could save alot of embarrassment.
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MSgt Michael Smith
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I think lots of people are forgetting that these are cadets, not active duty military members.
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Maj Rob Drury
Maj Rob Drury
>1 y
Absolutely wrong. Service academy cadet are most certainly active duty military members. More importantly, these are the most senior of officer candidates; they are, by regulation, to be held to full standards of officership. As I stated earlier, this isn't even about punishment; it's about whether or not to grant the authorities and responsibilities of military officership to individuals obviously incapable of correctly making even the most basic of judgement calls.
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Marlene Hessler
Marlene Hessler
>1 y
They are just days away from crossing that graduation line.

Do you really believe their attitudes and core beliefs are going to change?

And, actually if a person has those beliefs and attitudes to begin with, THEY HAD NO BUSINESS EVEN BEING SELECTED FOR CADET TRAINING A CADET'S EDUCATION IS NOT A SMALL INVESTMENT. THE US IS BROKE NEARLY 20 TRILLION IN DEBT. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO WASTE OUR TREASURE ON PEOPLE THAT JUST DON'T GET IT.
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LTC James Bozeman
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I am very disappointed that we have taken to social media to judge or defend these Cadets. Is there the appearance that something is wrong - yes, that is why we need to let the Officers and NCOs charged with investigating this do their job. When we don't follow procedure, we undermine the very principles that our civil and military justice systems are founded on and can taint the outcome. Our voices add to the prejudicial conflict that arises while at the same time we demand good order and discipline.

We all have opinions on these actions and none of them are necessarily wrong - but we can't become the mob. I understand that the Academy has a fair and impartial process and in the spirit of transparency we would hope they share these findings with the public and especially the military community to provide accountability and maintain good discipline and morale for our Profession of Arms.

Personally I have my beliefs, but I am not the Official who is responsible for reviewing their conduct and or passing judgment. I will say that with Graduation on 21 May, a mere 11 days away, that the process to properly review what these Cadets have done might take longer, especially if lawyers get involved and witnesses are called. I would ask that we wait and see and support the decision that the Superintendent makes based upon his staff's review. After all, at this point, we are merely staff Officers and staff NCOs in this realm and can only offer opinions - not pass judgment.
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Marlene Hessler
Marlene Hessler
>1 y
There is no defense for their actions. AVOID ALL PERCEPTION OF WRONGDOING is the rule we all live by. PERCEPTION IS REALITY. These women were given GRATIS the best EDUCATION MONEY CAN BUY AND THIS IS HOW THEY SHOW THEIR APPRECIATION AND GRATITUDE. Sorry, they do NOT REPRESENT THE CORE VALUES DEMANDED OF A MILITARY ACADEMY GRADUATE AKA MILITARY OFFICER.
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LTC James Bozeman
LTC James Bozeman
>1 y
Marlene Hessler - The Superintendent delivered his verdict - these Cadets will become Officers in a few days. Not necessarily the verdict or rendering that many hoped for - but that is life in the military...
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Maj Rob Drury
Maj Rob Drury
>1 y
LTC James Bozeman - And so goes Obama's military.
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CSM Thomas McGarry
CSM Thomas McGarry
>1 y
Marlene Hessler - Gee guess you are serving as judge and jury-I'm sure the Superintendent looked at all the facts and made an informed decision-I also wonder how many of these negative comments are coming from Officers or former Officers who never went to West Point as I know there is a certain amount of animosity between graduates and those officers who never went. I will say that when I served as an infantryman that at least the West Pont Graduate Officers could read a map where as many of the OCS and ROTC one could not and would not ask for assistance until we were really lost!!
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SFC Richard Caroll
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Yes I do, but I do not think that their careers should come to an end. Perhaps remedial training of the role of the military in politics.
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Maj Rob Drury
Maj Rob Drury
>1 y
They have already been trained far beyond the remedial level on this. What they did, at best, represented a tremendous lack of judgement; sending the message that they are not fit to be officers. Yes, this should be a career-ender.
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PFC John Morgan
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Several things, with the fist rotated it is not a victory move but black power/black lives matter salute. A thumbs up would of been more in order. Next in todays world it is just as wrong for all white to assemble for photo. Next in gender harmony it is wrong for all men to gather excluding others. Yes it is great that 16 I believe out of 18 made it all the way but in todays world respect is given to harmony of the gender and race. What ever they say it is perceived as a in your face kind of thing regretfully. And no I do not think they need to be disciplined but made aware of a broader gathering of there accomplishment to include others.
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Marlene Hessler
Marlene Hessler
>1 y
Respectfully disagree. It is harmful to allow it to fester in the ranks. And, it is a 'toe in the door' for the social disruptors. THEY KNEW THE RULES WHEN THE SIGNED ON AND NOW IT'S TIME TO 'PAY THE PIPER' FOR THEIR ACTIONS. One can only guess what their next step would be. SHOW THEM THE DOOR. AT LEAST THEY WILL KNOW THE MEANING OF RESPECT.
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PFC Angelika Jo
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No they are not making a political statement! I have noticed where the fist is held up at numerous events hosted and held by WP. Why is it a problem this time? Plus, this is not a Political Statement but rather a statement of triumph, strength and endurance for all of their hard work
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SSG Michael Primm
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Making a mountain out of a mole hill....ijs
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Marlene Hessler
Marlene Hessler
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That is how the social disorganizers operate. Little molehills til one day they pile up to a mountain. Who ever would think that when OUR ENEMIES ARE BEHEADING PEOPLE, we/OUR so called Leaders are focused on WHO GETS TO USE THE TOILETS.
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