Posted on Sep 8, 2015
"Colonel: Soldiers Should Not 'Impose' On All Afghan Customs, Including Child Rape"
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From: Breitbart
United States soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs, even if they go against American moral values, suggested Col. Steve Johnson, referring to a decorated Green Beret who has been reprimanded by the U.S. Army for “striking” a child rapist in Afghanistan back in September 2011.
“You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different… We can report and we can encourage them,” Col. Johnson told The News Tribune. “We do not have any power or the ability to use our hands to compel them to be what we see as morally better.”
The practice of influential men using underage boys as their sexual patterns, known as “Bacha Bazi,” is an illegal but common custom in Afghanistan.
Sgt. First Class (SFC) Charles Martland, the Green Beret, is expected to be kicked out of the Army by November 1.
Johnson’s comments drew the ire of Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) who, along with severRep. Al Green (D-TX) Beret veterans, argues that the Army should not discharge Martland for standing up to the alleged rapist, identified as Afghan local police (ALP) commander Abdul Rahman.
The incident took place in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province.
Hunter, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, declared that the Army’s decision to dismiss Sgt. Martland shows the “moral decay” currently afflicting military leadership. Rep. Hunter told Breitbart News:
Martland’s experience shows the type of moral decay among certain aspects of military leadership—starting at the top. In fact, had he not intervened in my opinion, that should have been grounds for removal. At what point will Army leadership stand up for Martland for doing the right thing? Instead, they continue to hide behind a process that seems to makes most sense, in the case specifically, to an Afghan rapist who was happy to see Martland pulled from duty.
Rep. Hunter, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, has written three letters to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter asking him to intervene in the Army’s case against the Green Beret, for the purpose of granting him his wish to continue serving in the U.S. Army.
Sgt. Martland admitted “striking” the alleged rapist accused of kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for pleading for help. The local police commander reportedly laughed about committing the crimes.
Rep. Duncan Hunter disagrees with Col. Johnson’s comments about U.S. soldiers having to tolerate all Afghan customs even if they go against American moral values.
“It is, in fact, a fundamental duty for our military to project American power, strength, and values,”wrote the congressman in the most recent letter addressed to Sec. Carter, dated September 1. “The ALP commander’s action was a human rights violations—and SFC Martland was right to step in and attempt to protect the child from further harm.”
Duncan also noted that Col. Johnson, in talking to The News Tribune, claimed the alleged rapist was “an inch from his death” after he was assaulted by Sgt. Martland and Quinn.
A cultural adviser and linguist who witnessed the incident contradicted those allegations, telling the office of Rep. Hunter, on condition of anonymity, that the rapist exaggerated the nature of his wounds, adding that the provincial police chief “strongly condemned” the alleged rapist and suggested that “he should be dismissed, arrested and put away.”
The police chief commended Sgt. Martland for confronting the Afghan police commander who allegedly laughed when approached by Martland.
Prior to the September 2011 incident, Col. Steve Johnson commanded Sgt. Charles Martland when he was the commander in the Army’s 1st Special Forces Group.
Johnson was in Afghanistan when Martland and Capt. Daniel Quinn, his Green Beret team leader, approached Rahman for allegedly kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for reaching out to the Green Berets for help.
The Army reprimanded Martland and Quinn, relieving them from their duties in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province where the incident took place back in 2011.
Quinn has since taken a private sector job in New York. Sgt. Martland is fighting to stay in the military.
Sgt. Martland is now facing involuntary discharge from the Army.
A spokesperson for the U.S. Army and the public affairs office for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, citing the Privacy Act, told Breitbart News that the Army was unable to confirm whether or not the September 2011 incident is linked to its decision to remove Martland.
When Breitbart News asked for a comment on accusations that the Army had chosen to side with the rapist instead of Sgt. Martland, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, said, “The Privacy Act prevents us from releasing any additional information about the administrative action taken regarding this topic.”
When the 2011 incident occurred, Sgt. Martland was serving with an elite Joint Base Lewis-McChord unit.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/02/colonel-u-s-soldiers-should-not-impose-on-all-afghan-customs-including-child-rape/
United States soldiers should tolerate all Afghan customs, even if they go against American moral values, suggested Col. Steve Johnson, referring to a decorated Green Beret who has been reprimanded by the U.S. Army for “striking” a child rapist in Afghanistan back in September 2011.
“You cannot try to impose American values and American norms onto the Afghan culture because they’re completely different… We can report and we can encourage them,” Col. Johnson told The News Tribune. “We do not have any power or the ability to use our hands to compel them to be what we see as morally better.”
The practice of influential men using underage boys as their sexual patterns, known as “Bacha Bazi,” is an illegal but common custom in Afghanistan.
Sgt. First Class (SFC) Charles Martland, the Green Beret, is expected to be kicked out of the Army by November 1.
Johnson’s comments drew the ire of Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) who, along with severRep. Al Green (D-TX) Beret veterans, argues that the Army should not discharge Martland for standing up to the alleged rapist, identified as Afghan local police (ALP) commander Abdul Rahman.
The incident took place in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province.
Hunter, a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, declared that the Army’s decision to dismiss Sgt. Martland shows the “moral decay” currently afflicting military leadership. Rep. Hunter told Breitbart News:
Martland’s experience shows the type of moral decay among certain aspects of military leadership—starting at the top. In fact, had he not intervened in my opinion, that should have been grounds for removal. At what point will Army leadership stand up for Martland for doing the right thing? Instead, they continue to hide behind a process that seems to makes most sense, in the case specifically, to an Afghan rapist who was happy to see Martland pulled from duty.
Rep. Hunter, who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, has written three letters to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter asking him to intervene in the Army’s case against the Green Beret, for the purpose of granting him his wish to continue serving in the U.S. Army.
Sgt. Martland admitted “striking” the alleged rapist accused of kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for pleading for help. The local police commander reportedly laughed about committing the crimes.
Rep. Duncan Hunter disagrees with Col. Johnson’s comments about U.S. soldiers having to tolerate all Afghan customs even if they go against American moral values.
“It is, in fact, a fundamental duty for our military to project American power, strength, and values,”wrote the congressman in the most recent letter addressed to Sec. Carter, dated September 1. “The ALP commander’s action was a human rights violations—and SFC Martland was right to step in and attempt to protect the child from further harm.”
Duncan also noted that Col. Johnson, in talking to The News Tribune, claimed the alleged rapist was “an inch from his death” after he was assaulted by Sgt. Martland and Quinn.
A cultural adviser and linguist who witnessed the incident contradicted those allegations, telling the office of Rep. Hunter, on condition of anonymity, that the rapist exaggerated the nature of his wounds, adding that the provincial police chief “strongly condemned” the alleged rapist and suggested that “he should be dismissed, arrested and put away.”
The police chief commended Sgt. Martland for confronting the Afghan police commander who allegedly laughed when approached by Martland.
Prior to the September 2011 incident, Col. Steve Johnson commanded Sgt. Charles Martland when he was the commander in the Army’s 1st Special Forces Group.
Johnson was in Afghanistan when Martland and Capt. Daniel Quinn, his Green Beret team leader, approached Rahman for allegedly kidnapping, chaining, and raping a 12-year-old boy and then beating his mother for reaching out to the Green Berets for help.
The Army reprimanded Martland and Quinn, relieving them from their duties in Afghanistan’s Kunduz province where the incident took place back in 2011.
Quinn has since taken a private sector job in New York. Sgt. Martland is fighting to stay in the military.
Sgt. Martland is now facing involuntary discharge from the Army.
A spokesperson for the U.S. Army and the public affairs office for the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, citing the Privacy Act, told Breitbart News that the Army was unable to confirm whether or not the September 2011 incident is linked to its decision to remove Martland.
When Breitbart News asked for a comment on accusations that the Army had chosen to side with the rapist instead of Sgt. Martland, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, said, “The Privacy Act prevents us from releasing any additional information about the administrative action taken regarding this topic.”
When the 2011 incident occurred, Sgt. Martland was serving with an elite Joint Base Lewis-McChord unit.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/02/colonel-u-s-soldiers-should-not-impose-on-all-afghan-customs-including-child-rape/
Army
Afghanistan
Customs and Courtesies
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 151
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Why are we fighting for these people. Their culture is so far from ours, we will bring them into the 20th century. I say leave them in the stone ages.
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While I agree on customs I totally disagree on customs that would land us in jail.
If it is a crime to us here then it is a crime everywhere.
If not then we could have a military coup as that is a normal custom around the world.
If it is a crime to us here then it is a crime everywhere.
If not then we could have a military coup as that is a normal custom around the world.
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Dissonance is the stress created when two values collide (a concept used in music). I wonder about the effects chronic dissonance has upon American who become aware of Afghan military sexually abusing children and then told by superior officers to simply ignore it? I think about Matt Damon's wasting away due to his stress-related illness while suppressing the truth of what truly happened versus the cover-up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_Under_Fire
Courage Under Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Courage Under Fire is a 1996 film directed by Edward Zwick, and starring Denzel Washington, Meg Ryan, Lou Diamond Phillips and Matt Damon.
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Our values are only important in our own nation.
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LTC (Join to see)
What values? We no longer have values. Because if we do, then we are accused of being intolerant.
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In this case, it shouldn't have, especially in the circumstances given. At this point, we can only assume that someone decided the mission took priority over inter-cultural pissing matches without thinking about the ramifications (this approach appears to have actually made us enemies in the region rather than being helpful).
In most cases though, if you're operating in a foreign country, theirs trumps ours.
In most cases though, if you're operating in a foreign country, theirs trumps ours.
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Just speaking for myself and the few I was on the COP with. We had our side of the compound and they had theirs. If any of their customs came into our AO we put a stop to it. As far as the hearing it goes, grab some headphones or something troop. It stinks but that's the way it is over there.
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SSG Steven Dowell
You're right. But sadly that was all we could do. We weren't allowed to enforce American customs on them unless they were in our AO. And even then was tricky.
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SFC William Farrell
I would have liked to have shot the bastards SSG Steven Dowell. Its a good thing they didn't activate this broken old soldier!
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While this isn't new, it is has been re-highlighted recently. As much as it pains me, that isn't our fight. I know that sounds awful, and I personally probably couldn't stand by while I watched it happen, but unless we are acting as law enforcement intentionally, we can't do it as a side gig while deployed there. :-/
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Cpl James Waycasie
Sir, while I applaud you for saying I would not stand by and meaning no disrespect but that sounds like a lame copout to me. I'm not trying to intentionally cause trouble but I thought we were the defenders of the weak, we were supposed to protect the innocent. Why are we there? Supposedly to end terrorism on the weak and innocent. Same thing as I see it. To knowingly allow such incidents to happen defeats the purpose of what we are supposed to be trying to accomplish. Any man or woman wearing our uniform and allowing something like this to take place without intervention is not worthy to call themselves Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, Saliors etc Sir.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Cpl James Waycasie - No disrespect taken. I completely understand where you're coming from on this and I agree. The problem is political. Morally I am 100% with you.
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Thank God the New York Times brought this to light.
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
This is from PBS Frontline back in 2010:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/view/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/view/
Watch The Full Program | The Dancing Boys Of Afghanistan | FRONTLINE | PBS
FRONTLINE investigates the accusations of criminality and corruption that have surrounded Vladimir Putin’s reign in Russia.
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Unfortunately, while unpalatable to Western culture, it is an acceptable practice within Afghan culture, typically found in the Pashtun areas.
No one who has served in Afghanistan is ignorant of the practice. It is referred to as bacha bazee, roughly translated as boy games.
No one who has served in Afghanistan is ignorant of the practice. It is referred to as bacha bazee, roughly translated as boy games.
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
Bacha bazi is also illegal under Afghanistan law, but winked at by government officials and American officers. Previous comments indicate this depravity as being a human rights violation as well. How do American troops drown out the screams in their dreams?
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SFC William Farrell
Judging by your profile MAJ (Join to see), you seem to have the inside hand on the "boy games'" I really don't care what they call it, it is not right, it is not moral, its probably not legal even in their backwards country and it should not be tolerated. While you may not be ignorant of this vile affront to children, you should be doing everything in your power in the Pentagon to see that this is not happening.
Just suppose Afghanistan came out of the stone age overnight and your family is stationed in Afghanistan and one of these scum commanders perpetrated their bacha bazee on one of your sons, how would you react? Would it be OK because its just their culture!
Just suppose Afghanistan came out of the stone age overnight and your family is stationed in Afghanistan and one of these scum commanders perpetrated their bacha bazee on one of your sons, how would you react? Would it be OK because its just their culture!
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MAJ (Join to see)
The victims are definitely victims, and there have been instances when they have retaliated. It is very common for tribal elders, or even warlords, to fight for rights for certain boys that they want. The problem is, at least for the Afghan people, is that these tribal elders and warlords are the people with the power.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Let's clarify a couple of points from my post because you seem to have misread what I stated, and/or implied, or made erroneous assumptions based on your supposition.
First, I have never, as you implied in your response, seen a child sexually violated during any of my tours in Afghanistan. I simply provided some context on a culturally accepted practice.
Second, I'm not really sure what you are implying or referencing with respect to having an inside hand on boy games? I can make some inferences based on your dearth of operational experience in the region, but, as a professional Soldier, my comments will remain professional, in keeping with the spirit of this Rally Point forum.
First, I have never, as you implied in your response, seen a child sexually violated during any of my tours in Afghanistan. I simply provided some context on a culturally accepted practice.
Second, I'm not really sure what you are implying or referencing with respect to having an inside hand on boy games? I can make some inferences based on your dearth of operational experience in the region, but, as a professional Soldier, my comments will remain professional, in keeping with the spirit of this Rally Point forum.
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Afghan Commanders Abuse Children, Don't Tell me Its Cultural | RallyPoint
While I have not served in Afghanistan and do not know their culture nor their customs, no sane person can tell me what is happening here is OK and that our military has said to ignore this. The Marine in the picture, his father believes he died as a result of the Marines allowing this abuse to continue. Does anyone on RP believe this is OK or has anyone know about it? Personally I'd want to do the same thing CPT Quinn but I think I would have...
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