Posted on Jul 23, 2014
Colder winter and cooler summer, the global warming theory sounds like junk. What do you think?
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Politics
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Politics Climate Change
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 94
There is so much contradictory data from large segments of reputable scientists, anyone that comes down solidly on the side of "IT DOES!" or "IT DOESN'T" is the equivalent of a fringe element in a political view. I took a devil's advocate to both views last year to show a group of students that regardless of which side they were on, I could dig up scientific data that is "THE TRUTH!" to oppose their view.
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1LT Nick Kidwell
I think the general public either forgets or is ignorant of one immutable fact about science: there is no such thing as proof, only evidence to reject or retain a null hypothesis and to support or refute an alternate hypothesis. It's not about proof, it's about evidence.
Proofs are for maths.
Proofs are for maths.
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SSgt (Join to see)
COL Randall C. Thanks for your input here. Every science sets out to prove that any idea is wrong and it does not just accept things at face value. I really appreciate your passion and level-mindnesses as opposed to talking points and political agendas.
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PO2 (Join to see)
I am by no means an expert on anything but,.. I am an amateur Astronomer. For ME, some of the problems with crazy weather are; pollution from autos, and poorly regulated plant emissions. This is a VERY complicated subject cause regulating emissions cuts profits from TONS of companies. This can be seen at the poles, as well as the crazy weather. I hate politics, political agendas. Man does NOT learn from the past, and WILL repeat it. We are destroying the Earth.
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Note: Forgive me if this comment repeats. It doesn't appear that my first attempt succeeded, but it may have]
Let's first define our terms. "Global Warming" is no longer the theme of the debate. They replaced that term with "Climate Change". To be honest, their focus is "man-made" climate change".
Climate change is an absolute and unassailable fact. Earth's climate has gone through major and minor changes throughout its existence. These cycles began long before man appeared, so it is futile to argue with it. However, we may reasonably question man's effect on climate change.
Thus far, the data supporting the case for man-made climate change is suspect. The only evidence the proponents have advanced is in the form of computer models built on selected data sets and there is ample evidence that these data sets have been manipulated to make their case.
Burt Rutan, an excellent engineer, published an exhaustive study of these data. Granted, Burt Rutan is not a climatologist. He makes no claims to be one. However, he points out that he is expert in studying data and limits his conclusions to that aspect. You can see them explained in layman's terms at
http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm
Sadly, the scientists who argue for man-made climate change are not climatologists either. They appear to be academics who have fallen into the trap believing that their uncommon knowledge in their limited fields of study make them expert in whatever they choose to focus on.
So, if it is not science, what is it? Personally, I believe it is tyranny. It is the effort of our "betters" to tell us what to do. They attempt to make us feel guilty about harming the environment and then use force of law as well as societal and cultural pressures to bend our will to theirs.
Let's first define our terms. "Global Warming" is no longer the theme of the debate. They replaced that term with "Climate Change". To be honest, their focus is "man-made" climate change".
Climate change is an absolute and unassailable fact. Earth's climate has gone through major and minor changes throughout its existence. These cycles began long before man appeared, so it is futile to argue with it. However, we may reasonably question man's effect on climate change.
Thus far, the data supporting the case for man-made climate change is suspect. The only evidence the proponents have advanced is in the form of computer models built on selected data sets and there is ample evidence that these data sets have been manipulated to make their case.
Burt Rutan, an excellent engineer, published an exhaustive study of these data. Granted, Burt Rutan is not a climatologist. He makes no claims to be one. However, he points out that he is expert in studying data and limits his conclusions to that aspect. You can see them explained in layman's terms at
http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm
Sadly, the scientists who argue for man-made climate change are not climatologists either. They appear to be academics who have fallen into the trap believing that their uncommon knowledge in their limited fields of study make them expert in whatever they choose to focus on.
So, if it is not science, what is it? Personally, I believe it is tyranny. It is the effort of our "betters" to tell us what to do. They attempt to make us feel guilty about harming the environment and then use force of law as well as societal and cultural pressures to bend our will to theirs.
This report includes many all-new data presentations and focuses on presenting climate data to Inform, rather than to Scare. Not a climate science reference, but a unique perspective - An engineering critique of the activist climate scientists and their process of data gathering, processing and presentation. It also has sections on climate adaptation and scientific consensus. No author approvals are required for distribution, please feel free...
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MSgt (Join to see)
Remember, the models were like 20 years ago and the actual temperatures turned out to be much less than the models predicted.
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1SG Frank Rocha
I have always suspected that as humans we collectively like to think we affect change on a grand scale. How much of a blow to our human ego's would it be if it was discovered that we in fact make a much smaller impact, if any at all, on nature, the earth, and its climate.
If you think about it you really don't have to be a scientist, a climatologist (or any "ologist" for that matter) to figure out that the earth has gone through ice ages, global warming and a million other changes far in advance of the arrival of man. Can we really be that short sighted and vain to think we have "God" like powers over the earth and its climate? or is their a more political reason for pushing such an agenda?
Think of all the money that has been made, out of thin air no less. The idea was created in a persons mind, presented to the people in the form of a problem, then money producing solutions to this "supposed" problem began to take form. I see most of it as propaganda.
It almost reminds me of chicken little running around saying the sky is falling and without fail one after another followed right behind believing the sky was falling.
Their may be credence to arguments regarding the quality of the air we breathe but to say we can actually have any real effect on the earths climate is just absurd. The sky is not falling, and if it ever did it would not be because of anything we as humans would ever have the capability of doing.
If you think about it you really don't have to be a scientist, a climatologist (or any "ologist" for that matter) to figure out that the earth has gone through ice ages, global warming and a million other changes far in advance of the arrival of man. Can we really be that short sighted and vain to think we have "God" like powers over the earth and its climate? or is their a more political reason for pushing such an agenda?
Think of all the money that has been made, out of thin air no less. The idea was created in a persons mind, presented to the people in the form of a problem, then money producing solutions to this "supposed" problem began to take form. I see most of it as propaganda.
It almost reminds me of chicken little running around saying the sky is falling and without fail one after another followed right behind believing the sky was falling.
Their may be credence to arguments regarding the quality of the air we breathe but to say we can actually have any real effect on the earths climate is just absurd. The sky is not falling, and if it ever did it would not be because of anything we as humans would ever have the capability of doing.
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CPT Jack Durish
Let's not forget those other "advances of science" that proved to be less than "established". How about the reports of vast islands of plastic floating in the middle of the earth's oceans. We lost our plastic shopping bags over that one. Turns out it was based on just one "scientists" faulty data. He overestimated the accumulation by more than 14,000%. Then there was the ban on DDT based on a faulty report that it was thinning birds' egg shells. We banned DDT and millions have died of malaria. As Rohm Emanuel observed, never let a crisis go to waste (that is use it to control people), and if you don't have a crisis, manufacture one
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SSG Matt Murphy
Thanks for the Malaria information....supports my earlier advice to spend funds there (live saving measures) versus spending one dime on the altar of "Climate Change"
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Global Warming Hoax - News and Information Source regarding the myth of Global Warming. Concentrating on the insignificance of man in the warming equation.
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Just to add fuel to the fire, here's an interesting interview with the founder of The Weather Channel on the global warming myth
http://americanprosperity.com/weather-channel-founder-debunks-global-warming-hoax/
http://americanprosperity.com/weather-channel-founder-debunks-global-warming-hoax/
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Even if we reduced all means of man caused methods of producing carbon that reaches the atmosphere we would still not reduce it by more than 1%. I believe that the idea of limiting pollution is good for other reasons like reducing waste and making companies more efficient. Politics on both sides is clouding the issue since you have some using any unseasonal weather to claim it's an effect of climate change, and then you have the other side pointing out seasonal weather to justify the change. Sure the weather has been fairly consistent over the last 150 years, varying less than a degree, but that really shouldn't be the issue even if the temperatures are stable, air pollution poses a great risk to human health. Of the many runaway warming models that were used to claim global warming that were used early on and extrapolated temps to rise to near Venus levels failed to take into account the effects of water here on earth.
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The meteorologists can't even predict the weather from day to day, the climate changes, are we part of the cause, probably, are we the bulk of the cause, probably not. the problem is that when the "scientists" are caught in a lie, it makes the rest of us a bit skeptical....http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/26/nasa-giss-caught-changing-past-data-again-violates-data-quality-act/
In 1975, it was a new ice age, now it is climate change, global warming..Psst...the climate changes always will always has.. As I said previously, follow the money, those who proclaim the loudest get the most grants, and look at poor Al Gore, the planet is dying, but he still flies his private jet, why, because he took advantage of a situation and Capitalized on it!
In 1975, it was a new ice age, now it is climate change, global warming..Psst...the climate changes always will always has.. As I said previously, follow the money, those who proclaim the loudest get the most grants, and look at poor Al Gore, the planet is dying, but he still flies his private jet, why, because he took advantage of a situation and Capitalized on it!
NASA GISS caught changing past data again - violates Data Quality Act
From American Thinker - NASA's Rubber Ruler By Randall Hoven A funny thing happened on the way to determining how hot 2012 has been on a global basis: temperatures changed in 1880. We've been heari...
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SSgt John Steigerwald, glad to hear some honesty on this subject. Spoken like a true gentlemen....(:
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I think we should send a huge box of crayons to all these "climate scientists", put them in a room together and tell them to color inside the lines until they can get their sh!t together and make sense. As the song said: Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong.
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Its WEATHER. By definition its unpredictable. Weather = Change. This concludes our science and math lesson for today.
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I had a sister who was a Ph.D., and though her field was in Children with abused and neglected backgrounds, she had a wide circle of friends, one of whom was a Forensic Climatoligist (Not sure if I spelled that right) who has always stated that the Earth is cyclic. Periods of cold, periods of dry, and periods of hot. In the billions of years this planet has been here, there are few eras when the climate did not change.
For myself, I an either too stupid to understand it, or seriously confused when people say its Global Warming, when we have a winter that just wouldn't quit, and one of the coolest summers on record here in Texas. I mean, wouldn't a warming climate mean a hotter summer? Wouldn't it mean that the winters would be milder? Now, I get the storms and such, since Hurricanes are a lot worse when the oceans are warmer, and anyone in tornado alley knows that the worst storms seem to come on the hottest days, but I just can't understand how that works for snow and ice.
I just talked to my sister's friend a month ago, who told me that "Climate Change is inevitable... it changes every day, and every week. Even the best weathermen can't state, with any degree of certainty, what will happen next year, but there is one certainty, and that is that Greenhouse gases do affect the climate, but there were a great many more greenhouse gases before, and the end result was an ice age.
Apparently, I don't have the brain power to figure all this out, but I'm thinking, a Forensic Climatologist probably has the right of it.
For myself, I an either too stupid to understand it, or seriously confused when people say its Global Warming, when we have a winter that just wouldn't quit, and one of the coolest summers on record here in Texas. I mean, wouldn't a warming climate mean a hotter summer? Wouldn't it mean that the winters would be milder? Now, I get the storms and such, since Hurricanes are a lot worse when the oceans are warmer, and anyone in tornado alley knows that the worst storms seem to come on the hottest days, but I just can't understand how that works for snow and ice.
I just talked to my sister's friend a month ago, who told me that "Climate Change is inevitable... it changes every day, and every week. Even the best weathermen can't state, with any degree of certainty, what will happen next year, but there is one certainty, and that is that Greenhouse gases do affect the climate, but there were a great many more greenhouse gases before, and the end result was an ice age.
Apparently, I don't have the brain power to figure all this out, but I'm thinking, a Forensic Climatologist probably has the right of it.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Cpl Glynis Sakowicz I never talk cold outbreak as portending an ice age, nor conversely heating trends and apocalyptic destruction of our Ozone Hole and temperatures totally out of control. I have done this for 30 years and I have seen these fluxes time and again.
Arctic Oscillation in the winter and descending jet streams produce of large scale trends. In the summer, we have Baroclinic conditions. Meaning there is little wholesale differences in temperatures with a few exceptions. Deserts, Mt. Washington, etc. Especially toasty conditions are generally caused by an Omega Block. An especially entrenched High that builds over the Central USA. It's source region is Continental dry air that comes up from Mexico although sometimes these airmasses modify and perhaps bring moisture from the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific.
Arctic Oscillation in the winter and descending jet streams produce of large scale trends. In the summer, we have Baroclinic conditions. Meaning there is little wholesale differences in temperatures with a few exceptions. Deserts, Mt. Washington, etc. Especially toasty conditions are generally caused by an Omega Block. An especially entrenched High that builds over the Central USA. It's source region is Continental dry air that comes up from Mexico although sometimes these airmasses modify and perhaps bring moisture from the Gulf of Mexico or the Pacific.
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1SG,
I believe the most up to date information shows global warming is occurring. It is a complicated issue though.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html
I believe the most up to date information shows global warming is occurring. It is a complicated issue though.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html
It’s Cold and My Car is Buried in Snow. Is Global Warming Really Happening?
Global warming won't stop winter weather, but it does have significant implications for the intensity of the heaviest storms.
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2LT (Join to see)
SSgt (Join to see)
SSgt,
That is an interesting idea, and I do not claim to be an expert in climatology. That being said I do generally trust what the majority of the scientific world seems to be saying.
I do have to ask why you consider the temperature change anecdotal and at what point does it become no longer anecdotal?
SSgt,
That is an interesting idea, and I do not claim to be an expert in climatology. That being said I do generally trust what the majority of the scientific world seems to be saying.
I do have to ask why you consider the temperature change anecdotal and at what point does it become no longer anecdotal?
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SSgt (Join to see)
2LT (Join to see) _ That last question is the hardest to answer but I want politicians to stay doing what they are good at. Nothing!!! LOL I have seen 30+ years old changes but most were changes for a season or two.
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SSG Pete Fleming
Global warming and/or climate change is real... however the reasons behind it and the extent are another matter. Fact, the Earth's climate has changed numerous times. Fact the Earth (in general) has been getting warmer since the last ice age ended... I don't understand what everyone is getting so worked up about it. Unless nuclear holocaust is on the brink... there isn't much we can do about it. It's just part of the natural cycle of things (throughout all of Earth's history)... Now if someone wishes to control real issues pollution, over-population, deforestation, and other such things... that would be realistic but all this debate over climate change is nonsense... But, that is my opinion.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Pete Fleming, well said. Unfortunately the fact that the earth goes through cycles is totally missed by these elitist "scientists". The earth heals itself in so many different ways. It's just simple scientific stuff.
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