Posted on Mar 24, 2016
Can soldiers in civilian clothes salute a fallen comrade memorial?
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I recently visited the Fallen Warriors Memorial on Cutten Road in Spring, TX. While I was there, I noticed a Veteran wearing a Vietnam hat and although I wanted to walk over to him and shake his hand, I decided to back off as he was paying his respects; however, prior to him leaving he stood in front of the memorial, came to attention and held a salute for a few seconds before bringing it down. So my question is actually coming from me as I've felt compelled to salute as well, but have refrained as I'm not sure what is correct.
Saluting
Customs and Courtesies
Fallen Soldiers
Memorial
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 580
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I know before I even paste this ALMAR in here that it will not be popular, and I will never even bring this up to another veteran, Even a Marine like me, But when the law was changed and signed, the Commandant sent and signed the following ALMAR # 052/08 and you can see the extraction below. I think personally that the Honoring of our National Colors and Fallen Comrads rates a Salute. But I put in enough time in The Corps to Obey Lawful Orders and I guess I will be a Marine for Life so while I respect the choices of others, I will have to wait until HQMC authorizes us old hard headed Jarheads to go along with our sister services to exercise my newly proclaimed priviledge. Go to it guys and salute once more for me.
CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS
Date Signed: 12/17/2008
ALMARS Active Number: 052/08
R 161950Z Dec 08
UNCLASSIFIED//
ALMAR 052/08
MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC CMC//
SUBJ/CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS//
REF/A/DESC:DOC/CMC WASHINGTON DC/05MAY2003//
AMPN/REF A IS MCO P5060.20, MARINE CORPS DRILL AND CEREMONIES MANUAL.
//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. THIS ALMAR REINFORCES THE IMPORTANCE OF OUR
CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS AND AMPLIFIES THE PROVISIONS OF THE REFERENCE
FOR RENDERING SALUTES AND HONORS TO THE NATIONAL FLAG; THE PROPER
CONDUCT OF THE MARINE CORPS BIRTHDAY CAKE CUTTING CEREMONY; AND THE
PLAYING OF THE MARINES' HYMN.
2. CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS PROVIDE A LINK TO THE PAST; THEY BOND
MARINES WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE WITH MARINES WHO WILL CARRY THE TORCH
THROUGH THE FUTURE. ANY LOSS OF TRADITION OR IMPROPER OBSERVATION
OF CUSTOM BLURS OUR IDENTITY AND WEAKENS US AS AN INSTITUTION.
THROUGH THE FAITHFUL ADHERENCE BY COMMANDERS AND EACH INDIVIDUAL
MARINE, WE PRESERVE OUR IDENTITY AND REPUTATION AS A UNIQUE AND
ELITE FIGHTING ORGANIZATION.
3. SALUTING. A RECENT CHANGE TO THE LAW HAS AUTHORIZED ACTIVE DUTY
AND RETIRED SERVICEMEMBERS TO SALUTE THE NATIONAL COLORS, WHETHER
COVERED OR UNCOVERED, INDOORS OR OUT. BY CUSTOM AND TRADITION,
MARINES DO NOT RENDER THE HAND SALUTE WHEN OUT OF UNIFORM OR WHEN
UNCOVERED. LET THERE BE NO CONFUSION; THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. DURING
THE PLAYING OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, OR THE RAISING, LOWERING, OR
PASSING OF THE NATIONAL FLAG, MARINES WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW NAVAL
TRADITIONS AND THE POLICY / PROCEDURES CONTAINED IN REFERENCE (A).
SPECIFICALLY, MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL FACE THE FLAG, STAND AT
ATTENTION, AND PLACE THE RIGHT HAND OVER THE HEART. IF COVERED,
MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL REMOVE THEIR HEADGEAR WITH THE RIGHT
HAND AND PLACE THEIR RIGHT HAND OVER THEIR HEART. WHEN THE FLAG IS
NOT PRESENT, MARINES WILL ACT IN THE SAME MANNER WHILE FACING IN THE
DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC. IN CASES SUCH AS INDOOR CEREMONIES, WHEN
MARINES ARE IN UNIFORM AND UNCOVERED, THEY WILL FACE THE FLAG, OR
THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC WHEN THE FLAG IS NOT PRESENT, AND STAND
AT ATTENTION.
CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS
Date Signed: 12/17/2008
ALMARS Active Number: 052/08
R 161950Z Dec 08
UNCLASSIFIED//
ALMAR 052/08
MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC CMC//
SUBJ/CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS//
REF/A/DESC:DOC/CMC WASHINGTON DC/05MAY2003//
AMPN/REF A IS MCO P5060.20, MARINE CORPS DRILL AND CEREMONIES MANUAL.
//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. THIS ALMAR REINFORCES THE IMPORTANCE OF OUR
CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS AND AMPLIFIES THE PROVISIONS OF THE REFERENCE
FOR RENDERING SALUTES AND HONORS TO THE NATIONAL FLAG; THE PROPER
CONDUCT OF THE MARINE CORPS BIRTHDAY CAKE CUTTING CEREMONY; AND THE
PLAYING OF THE MARINES' HYMN.
2. CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS PROVIDE A LINK TO THE PAST; THEY BOND
MARINES WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE WITH MARINES WHO WILL CARRY THE TORCH
THROUGH THE FUTURE. ANY LOSS OF TRADITION OR IMPROPER OBSERVATION
OF CUSTOM BLURS OUR IDENTITY AND WEAKENS US AS AN INSTITUTION.
THROUGH THE FAITHFUL ADHERENCE BY COMMANDERS AND EACH INDIVIDUAL
MARINE, WE PRESERVE OUR IDENTITY AND REPUTATION AS A UNIQUE AND
ELITE FIGHTING ORGANIZATION.
3. SALUTING. A RECENT CHANGE TO THE LAW HAS AUTHORIZED ACTIVE DUTY
AND RETIRED SERVICEMEMBERS TO SALUTE THE NATIONAL COLORS, WHETHER
COVERED OR UNCOVERED, INDOORS OR OUT. BY CUSTOM AND TRADITION,
MARINES DO NOT RENDER THE HAND SALUTE WHEN OUT OF UNIFORM OR WHEN
UNCOVERED. LET THERE BE NO CONFUSION; THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. DURING
THE PLAYING OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, OR THE RAISING, LOWERING, OR
PASSING OF THE NATIONAL FLAG, MARINES WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW NAVAL
TRADITIONS AND THE POLICY / PROCEDURES CONTAINED IN REFERENCE (A).
SPECIFICALLY, MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL FACE THE FLAG, STAND AT
ATTENTION, AND PLACE THE RIGHT HAND OVER THE HEART. IF COVERED,
MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL REMOVE THEIR HEADGEAR WITH THE RIGHT
HAND AND PLACE THEIR RIGHT HAND OVER THEIR HEART. WHEN THE FLAG IS
NOT PRESENT, MARINES WILL ACT IN THE SAME MANNER WHILE FACING IN THE
DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC. IN CASES SUCH AS INDOOR CEREMONIES, WHEN
MARINES ARE IN UNIFORM AND UNCOVERED, THEY WILL FACE THE FLAG, OR
THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC WHEN THE FLAG IS NOT PRESENT, AND STAND
AT ATTENTION.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Considering the Marines have decreed that the CIVILIAN gate guards at MCB Quantico must salute officers, I'm going to print this ALMAR out and use it for what it's worth...toilet paper.
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CWO4 Ray Fairman
I guess since you are not a Marine, you can do what you want with it. I don't get mad when my sister gets mad at me, its not worth the love and respect we have for what each of us stands for, that holds true for inter-service respect Chief. My son is a USMA Major, My Wife a USAR NC 1LT, My Daughter a USA NC CPT and my son-in-law a former USA Major (Combat MD Type Now a USNR CMDR doing multiple CBT Tours) and I once in my checkered past was an 11B40 and 95B40 SFC for 4 years. Still none of them have a problem relating to my 36 years of obeying the lawful directives of my superiors, a philosophy to which i still subscribe. Your comment merely supports my theory that you can't cater to everyone without offending someone over trivia that does not impact them at all. As a last thought the USMC also taught me that respect is both earned and freely given... never demanded; isn't that a USA leadership trait as well?
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Is there a law that says saluting is illegal? Can a person who has never worn a uniform of any type salute? Sure. What is the problem with that? Saluting is MANDATORY for some groups but is not forbidden and shouldn't be. That would be like saying only military people can address somebody as "sir". If I want to salute, I will salute. It may not follow the protocol but nothing wrong with it.
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As I recall, just before I separated in 2013, the policy was officially changed to allow for saluting in civilian clothes, though I have seen veterans & enlisted salute in civies my entire life.
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I realize people like to voice their opinion, FB, Tweet, etc and of course it's your right, but sometimes it's better not to say anything at all (I don't care it's none of my business) sounds a little heartless (to me).
But that's my opinion, oh and thank you 1SG Jason Hastings for the clarification!
But that's my opinion, oh and thank you 1SG Jason Hastings for the clarification!
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I have always been taught the salute is a sign of respect. It must be given to Officers while in uniform, everything else is at your option.
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Why does anyone think that the salute is only "legal" for the military. Why shouldn't ANY civilian have the right to show their respect for the people that they love and may have lost in service to this country. Besides, are we really worried about someone expressing their freedom of "speech"?
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CW3 (Join to see)
It isn't a case of it being legal. Saluting is a military custom, not a civilian one. A civilian who has never served hasn't earned the right to salute.
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PFC Mike Hines
Petty at its finest. I thought the salute was a military customer to recognize the one that is receiving the salute. To take your point to an extreme, does that mean a small child should not salute the flag as it passes in a parade?
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Saluting is not reserved for only the military. Police and Fire Departments salute each other, especially during funeral services for fallen comrades. Non-military organizations such as Coast Guard Auxiliary, Civil Air Patrol, Maritime officers, etc., regularly salute. It's a centuries old tradition. It's also freedom of speech.
I say salute to your hearts content.
I say salute to your hearts content.
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No matter whether your are serving or have been of service. We will always honor our country and other who have fallen in duty. When we sign on the dotted line remember that at anytime they can call us back to duty. This is the price we all who served was willing to pay to protect like our forefather the right of freedom and the belief of keeping our freedom alive. This was never a 9 to 5 job.
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When I do the Wreaths Across America with my VFW Riders Group, we always say the name of the Fallen, address him/her, SALUTE, and thank them for their Service. I may or may not have even had a short conversation with the Fallen, just letting them know that They ARE NOT FORGOTTEN.
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